Transcribed by Aajonus.net & Rawmeatgang
Date: 29 August 2001
The Aware Radio Show, KPFK
L = Lisa Garr, A = Aajonus
[Intro]
L: Good afternoon and welcome to Aware. Hi, this is Lisa Garr. We have been speaking a lot this week about changing the software of your mind, about changing the programming from your upbringing that no longer serves you, those belief systems that you don't need any longer in your life, that don't apply to you or what you're trying to create with your vision and your future. I guess you could call it thinking outside of the box. There are many different ways that people talk about this type of conversation, but it does take a continuous conscious conversation in order to secure this type of thinking. We've touched on this in terms of perspectives and belief systems and ways of thinking, but let's get into the body now. Let's talk about health. Let's talk about wrapping your mind around new concepts where it has to do with your health and changing the way you believe in taking care of your body from a real, real root level, like we've been talking about taking care of your mind. So what the average person might consider a healthy American diet may be vegetables, a meal or two in a restaurant, some bread here and there, sweets. We're into sweets and we got our coffee thing going on here in L.A. So watching what you eat can usually be what you would call that. Oh, I'm watching what I eat. I eat healthy. Actually, those are the things that very well could be making you sick, especially later on in life. But you would never even know it or you would never even feel slightly different because it's like it's eating like this over a period of time that changes the chemistry of the body. And this and many more of the concepts of today's guest, Aajonus Vonderplanitz. He has not only healed himself several times of cancer and other life-threatening illnesses, but he brought his son back from a coma and healed his critical brain damage as well as helped thousands of other people. He's somewhat of a catalyst in the health world who looks at approaching health not only from changing eating habits, but from changing the way that people can actually live without disease and without the fear of ever getting a disease, without the statistics that come along with aging and illness. That really, as he says in the book, from the physical, mental and emotional and spiritual bankruptcy that results from disease, which is so true, Aajonus is the author of We Want to Live, which is a really wonderful book and very appropriately titled because it really assists you in changing your belief system and the way you eat. And I thank you so much for joining me in studio today. Thank you so much.
A: Thank you, Lisa. I'm honored.
L: That was a mouthful, wasn't it? Well, we've been on this trip here and the show is really dedicated to opening up new ways of thinking about things. And then promoting people to listen to their own truth and all of it. Here's the information. Here's as much as I can find. Now you figure it out what resonates with you and what resonates with your own body and everything. And that's what we talk about on this show. And you have your book falls into a perfect alignment with that because you have concepts that are not your normal American way of thinking, but that have truth and validity because it's based on information that was, you know, discovered by our ancestors or not discovered. It was just a normal way of eating and so forth. Where do you think we changed? Where do you think the cooked and the processed foods and all that became a part of a normal American diet?
A: Well, I think about, oh, 100 years ago with the dawning of industrial revolution, you know, stoves became a regular thing. Canned foods during World War II became the norm.
L: A necessity too.
A: Yes. Well, no, that was more propaganda.
L: Oh, was it?
A: It wasn't really a necessity, you know. The canned food industry, the processed food industry had such a boon, you know, for all the – It was a sales job to get people into backing World War II, to getting behind it. So if you put people at some kind of a risk and you tell them, oh, we're lacking food, we're lacking this, we're lacking that, when that really didn't exist, it gets people suffering and of course people stick together when they're suffering more. So it was a great propaganda blitz.
L: A lot was back then.
A: The industrial food industry loved it and they wanted to continue it, so they did.
L: Now I was speaking with you before the show about when the whole introduction of the Twinkies and the Wonders bread and the white breads and all that. What time, what year did all that get introduced?
A: Well, the Twinkies came in in the 50s, basically took hold then. Of course they were experimenting with it and bringing it out prior to that and Wonder Bread of course started probably in the 30s. Purina and General Foods were the big companies back then and I happened to run into when I was bicycling over the country, around the country as I explain in my book. I lived off a bicycle for three years trying to discover what was really the answer because every book on health contradicted everybody else. So it was so confusing. What was true? One person would say, oh, margarine is better and no, butter is better. No, one will create hardening of the arteries. And there was this big debate going on and nobody had really any empirical knowledge, no definite knowledge. It was researchers and scientists playing with paper and concepts and not living with results. And that was a big problem. Of course Purina, when I met that man in Oklahoma in 1975, he told me that he had worked for Purina and the General Foods as a researcher. And they were conducting experiments to prove that processing food and getting rid of all bacteria and parasites and anything like that in food, the more you processed it, the healthier it would be for the human being. So they had all of these animal experiments. And after I think it was 17 years, all of the evidence, it was like 90 percent validated that processed food, all animals who ate processed food got 80 percent diseases, all the diseases that man got. And all of those animals who ate the raw food and it was indigenous to their diet had no disease. And that was backed up by Pottenger's experiments from the 30s to the 50s with 900 cats. No diseases with the cats who ate the raw meat, the raw milk, and raw butter. But all of those that ate the cooked foods, the kibble, the canned food, all got every disease that man had.
L: And they were realizing slowly that the organs, the body, just does not assimilate these processed manufactured foods, right?
A: Correct.
L: And this is what the final result was.
A: Yes. And the punchline on this old man who told me, this old man who was a researcher, said that when all of that information was compiled, guess what happened to it? Purina and General Foods had it all shredded. Burned is actually what they did. They had it burned.
L: Interesting. Well, this is kind of why we have people like you or, you know, there are people out there that advocate the truth in health. And once again, it's about discovering that for yourself. Now, you went on a bit of a sabbatical to find out your truth in all of this, and you researched it. What age were you when you went through the Viking, when you went across?
A: I was 27 to 30.
L: You had already healed yourself of the blood disease and bone...
A: Well, no, I had multiple myeloma, which is blood and bone cancer, and lymphoma, which started off as an ulcer when I was 19 years old. That was treated with Maalox, drinking, you know, like a bottle a day, sometimes more. And that's what the doctors recommended. They ended up giving me an ulcer, I mean a tumor, a malignant tumor next to the ulcer. So they decided to do a vagotomy, which means they severed the vagus nerve to my stomach so I would never again secrete hydrochloric acid. Now, they usually don't do that operation except if you're 70-80 years old because you will never... Their theory is you will never again secrete hydrochloric acid, so you are in danger of death from bacterial and parasitical food invasion. So, basically, they told me that I would never again be able to eat raw foods because it might kill me. Cooked foods were awful. After that, I could not digest meat. If I ate meat, the next day my face would look like a raw hamburger. I'd have so many pustulations all over it. And after a few years, after that surgery, I had pustulations all over my whole body if I ate any meat.
L: So this was a personal experiment of yours to see what you could live with.
A: Exactly. And the more cooked foods I ate, the worse I got. So I began experimenting with raw foods. And it was just by fluke because after I had gone back, actually there was a whole development of the cancers that the doctors created in me. First they created the ulcer from having the Maalox. Then I had the surgery. And then that started becoming tumorous. The actual incision became tumorous and keloided and got very large. So they irradiated that. I went under tremendous radiation therapy. That cauterized my spine and gave me blood and bone cancer. Basically I couldn't even touch my knees if I were standing. And you were 21. I was 21 at that point. And then they gave me chemotherapy to get rid of the blood and bone cancer, and that gave me lymphoma. It went on and on and on. So basically I decided to die. I said, I'm going home. You guys just leave me alone. And at that point it deteriorated all the bone around my teeth, so my teeth just dangled. So if I bit down on my own bite, I would bleed a half a cup of blood. So I had to drink things through a straw. And this volunteer for a hospice introduced me to carrot juice. He said, Listen, here's a book. It was about 80 to 86 pages, by this woman who has written that she cured her uterine cancer by drinking a gallon of carrot juice a day. I thought how absurd that was. Because my father is an inventor and scientist. My mother is an RN. I have eight aunts and uncles who are RNs and three uncles who are doctors. So I was very much around the medical profession when it was said that diet has nothing to do with your health. And yet you take pills which are your eating, and yet you get injections which go into your system, which is chemistry. So a lot of people don't put those two and two together and realize that the medical profession is really insane.
L: Well, they're coming at it from more of a perspective of the fixing the problem and not fixing the root of the cause. I mean, not the preventative side, but more of fixing the immediate illness, which is, as we've discovered, it really helps if you can back it up and go for the preventative measures, which winds up helping the illness in the long run if you have that kind of time. But you introduce the concept of curing an incurable disease to somebody, and it's just like taking a car jack and putting it into the brain and opening it up really wide and then cramming information in there. It's really... It's hard to digest.
A: I must caution you, though. You're not allowed to use the word cure. The medical profession and the AMA own that word by law. You cannot cure anything.
L: Oh, I see.
A: There's no one... Only doctors and medicine cure by law.
L: Well, cure for cancer, which they have never found. Maybe that's the reason why, because that word is owned. So there are solutions.
A: There's healing. Yes, we can say that word.
L: Okay, thank you for protecting me there. Okay, so you're talking with somebody who has a terminal illness, and you're telling them that they can cure this incurable disease. What is the first step or the first approach that you would take when telling somebody that? I mean, yes, you've done it yourself.
A: If it's with cancer, what I say is from my own lab experiments, I found that cancer is nothing other than the body's inability to dissolve and discard dead cells. So just like there are a lot of, let's say we have prisoners or dead bodies, and we need mausoleums or whatever to hold them in, to contain them, graveyards. Basically, that's what a tumor is. It's a place to store dead cells because your liver is not working properly to produce cholesterols that will make solvents. We have solvents to clean up grease and to dissolve compounds, even metal. Well, the body makes these solvents mainly out of 80% cholesterols and other fats and 15% proteins and about 5% alcohol from the body fermenting carbohydrates in the system. So it takes these solvents and it dissolves these dead cells or you have bacteria or virus or parasites which will eat them up too. So that's a way to get rid of the dead cells. If you can't, then they have to store in the body. A tumor is one way of holding them, either benign or malignant.
L: It's an interesting way of looking at it. It's a graveyard for dead cells, a tumor. Okay.
A: And if it's a benign tumor, that means it grows very slowly. But if it's malignant, that's an indication that your liver is in very bad shape or you're not eating the kind of fats that are necessary for your body to assimilate. Some people can eat cooked garbage all the time, cooked foods, cooked fats, and never develop cancer in their entire life.
L: Why is that?
A: Because their liver and their whole system has created a way of mutating to be able to handle that. However, according to Samuel Epstein, the world's greatest authority on cancer, world-renowned, he's like 80-some years old, 79, 78, 80 years old. He says that right now, 1 out of every 2 men get cancer, 1 out of 3 women get cancer. When I was 10 years old in 1957, 1 in 1,000 died of cancer. So you have to look at the rate. We're getting a lot of propaganda from the scientific community and the medical community and the academic community. We're getting brainwashed, we're getting bad information that's not true. If you go out there and search these people who specialize in it, like Dr. Samuel Epstein, who's an MD, says that the whole American approach to, medical allopathic system approach to cancer is dangerous and horrific. It does not heal anything. It damages the system. And you take a look at it. One's butchering the body. One's burning the body with radiation. The other's poisoning it. And for every one cancer cell you destroy with chemo, it kills one billion healthy cells. So that's just like destroying every person on the planet because you don't like six people on the whole planet.
L: Well, the point of the burning and the radiation and everything is to kill the bad cells.
A: But see, you destroy more.
L: Of the good cells.
A: Much more of the good. So what you do is deteriorate the body and it's a fallacy. You don't get better. Because still 17% of people do not survive five years without regetting cancer after those therapies.
L: And the body has to work a hundred times harder to regenerate itself in a depleted state.
A: If it can. If it even can.
L: If it can. Now, what is the link to cooked foods, not cooked foods, processed foods I should say, being introduced to the market in the last 100 years to the rate of the rise in cancer? Is there a link?
A: Well, there seems to be because the more chemicals we use in the processing of, you know, of growing, processing, fertilizing, insecticide, additives, preservatives, all new chemicals. We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 6,000 new chemicals that the body has been introduced to in the last 100 years that it never came into contact before. And our bodies have taken millions and millions of years to handle just the chemicals from, you know, other animal life and plant life to be able to eat that and assimilate.
L: Talk to us about some of the indigenous cultures that do not have cooked foods as a part of their diets and what their cancer rates are, their rates of illness and disease are.
A: Well, let's take the Samburu. Now, they mainly live on raw milk and raw meat.
L: Which we can't even get in this country, raw milk, not country, in this city.
A: Oh, yes, we can.
L: Well, yeah, it's not readily available.
A: I got the law changed.
L: I know.
A: Yes, it is now.
L: Finally, it took the law to change.
A: Oh, my God, yeah, on March 19th of this year, the Board of Supervisors overruled the Health Department and said, you have no science. And I did a 49-page report on the wonderful health results of raw milk, including that the Mayo Clinic used raw milk therapy to reverse diabetes and all kinds of diseases.
L: You did that report?
A: Yes, I just went and did the report.
L: Oh, you're kidding. I read that report.
A: You did.
L: I did. Interesting. Fascinating. I didn't connect the name. So, okay, back to the indigenous cultures.
A: So the Samburu mainly eat raw milk. Let's say, you know, about half of their diet is raw milk and then raw meat. The Maasai tribe mainly eats raw meat and some raw blood and lots of raw milk. They only eat – they'll take half raw milk, freshly milked, and then add 50 percent blood to it three months out of the year when the cows are calving because they can't take all the milk from the calves. And they have no disease. There's no heart disease. And all they eat is this milk and cream and fat and meat, and there's no heart disease. And yet the academic community and scientific community spurred by the margarine and oil industry threw the blame on all of this hardening of the arteries and heart disease on butter, meat, and stuff like that when it's absolutely fallacy.
L: What do you feel about coconut butter and – not coconut butter, but coconut oil?
A: Well, I have not found any place that really has a true unheated coconut oil.
L: Right. There's a few.
A: However, if you – but there aren't. I know I've investigated all of them, and they all say unheated honey. But when I ask for it in writing, it always comes back, well, because we're in a tropical climate, we have to heat it to dry it or else it will ferment and rot. So they're heating it between 170 and 215 degrees.
L: Well, if it's sitting outside and it's 106 out, then it gets heated anyway, right?
A: Well, above 105, 106 degrees, then there's enzymes that are destroyed.
L: So it can only be in that hot of a temperature.
A: Naturally, it's okay.
L: Okay.
A: It doesn't damage it. But when you isolate it and separate it and then have it at those temperatures, of course, there's a natural process of decomposition.
L: Okay.
A: You have molds and bacterias, all kinds of things that will go into a food and help break it down to go back into the soil. Now, there's indigenous tribes like the Eskimo. They lived on raw, nothing but raw meats, you know, for, well, 99% raw meats. They had no cauldrons to cook in until the Germans brought it to them in the early 1800s. They had no disease whatsoever, and they, the Maasai and the Samburu, were considered the happiest, healthiest tribes on the planet and most intelligent. The Eskimos' first disease came in 1886 with a cavity, a simple cavity. But that was after 50 years of this Eskimo eating sugars and breads that were brought in by the Germans and English.
L: And they were able to cook. Now, these other indigenous cultures, they had fire. They obviously used fire for warmth and for other things, but they chose not to cook with it?
A: Well, you know, that's speculation. I wasn't [unintelligible].
L: I know. I know.
A: And you hear all of these tales about, you know, about the caveman, you know, carried around fire on this stick, you know, ran around, kept it going.
L: Right.
A: And you'd sit down each meal and, you know, rub sticks together and get a fire going. It's very unrealistic after you've lived outdoors like I have. And take, for instance, that movie that came out, you know, with what's-his-face talking to the volleyball.
L: Oh, yes, yes, The Castaway.
A: The Castaway, okay. You see him burning it. Then by the end of the film, he's not burning it at all. He's eating that fish raw. It is too much work. It really is. And when I lived outdoors, you just don't even think about it. It's too much work, you eat it raw.
L: Now, naturally, I want to go into the conversation about the parasites that are in meats and fish and so forth. How does the body use or use them as refuse?
A: Okay.
L: Eliminate them.
A: This is a huge new concept for everybody because the media has a blitz on it and the medical profession owns the health departments. You don't know – there's not one official that is not a doctor. So they all believe…
L: In health departments. Oh, you mean the governmental health.
A: Governmental health departments, right. Anything to do with health and authority is usually in the medical profession.
L: FDA and so forth, yes.
A: They're all medical doctors. So they believe and they have told us all that we are in danger of death. And when somebody gets bacterial food poisoning and dies from it, this bacteria was the cause. However, when I did some investigation on those people who were said to have died of bacterial food poisoning, I did not find one that died of dehydration or bleeding to death. Those are the only two ways you can die from bacterial, so-called bacterial food poisoning. You have either violent vomiting or violent diarrhea that causes you to dehydrate or bleed to death.
L: Right.
A: All of the cases that I saw either had dysfunctional, deteriorating kidneys and shock, anaphylactic shock. It's all from drug treatment. Now, I've been eating raw meat since 1976, and like I said, I had a vagotomy. They told me that I would be in danger of it. I've eaten parasite-infested salmon, calves' brain, and chicken tripe and had my feces and blood checked for 10 weeks after, and I did not get one parasite.
L: And what would you attribute that to?
A: Well, I attribute it to if you have a lot of dead cells in your body that need excavation, then they will feed on them, but that's really a cleansing process. So most people would just go through diarrhea and vomiting. That's a healthy thing. You eliminate poisons the quickest that way, especially when you have caustic bile formed from other toxins and bad foods. So it's a cleansing. People on cooked diets go through diarrhea and vomiting periodically, just like you will do on any diet if you haven't been raised optimally and healthfully. So it's not a problem. The problem is when people get parasites and they don't eat the proper proteins for the body to regenerate cells, then the parasites will leave an ulcer there, and what happens is they have gut exchange and bleeding and could have peritonitis and death. But on this diet and all of the years that I've worked with over 3,000 people eating raw meat, no one who's had parasites has ever died from it nor has had a serious problem.
L: But you emphasize being on the diet, which is inclusive of other live enzymes, lots of live foods, proteins, cultures, everything that help the process, everything that you're talking about.
A: For the body to regenerate cells, yes.
L: I'm speaking with Aajonus Vonderplanitz, and he's the author of We Want to Live, which is the book where he talks about his story and really the processes that we're talking about in terms of raw foods and concepts around cooked and processed foods, some really wonderful information. We're going to take a quick break, and we're going to be right back. We're going to announce the winner of our contest and give you a little bit more information about what's coming up this weekend. This is Lisa Garr. You're listening to Aware on KPFK.
[break]
L: Welcome back to Aware. Hi, this is Lisa Garr. And the person who was the lucky winner to win the contest in order to attend Bruce Lipton and Rob Williams' event on Wednesday, September 5th, is Lori Dean Sullivan. I think I've pronounced that right. Yeah, Lori Dean Sullivan. And Lori Dean, if you're listening, give us a call, 818-985-5735. Oh, she has been notified because Steve Sharp is so efficient. Thank you, Steve. So, Lori Dean, congratulations. And we will pick another winner again tomorrow during the show. We're going to be speaking with John Robbins tomorrow, author of A Diet for New America, has a new book out. And we're going to be announcing another contest winner for tomorrow. And these people are going to be, we just want people to be able to experience the information that Rob and Bruce have. We want them to do it for free. They have made the lecture very inexpensive so people can bring as many as they want. I think if you go to the weekend, the two-day event, if you purchase a ticket to the two-day event, that evening lecture is free. So there's a lot of great ways to get to this information. They have made it very accessible and because they really want to support people in Los Angeles who have been so supportive of Bruce Lipton. And people who have listened to him on the air really get his information and I'm really happy because it's a great way of thinking.
So we are speaking with Aajonus Vonderplanitz and he is the author of We Want to Live, which is a really wonderful book that talks about the fact that people can live without disease. They can live without the fear of disease and that the physical, mental and emotional and spiritual bankruptcy that results from disease is no longer necessary. It's so interesting because of the statistics that surround illness and the amount of people that are in their later years. The statistics are rising so fast with the amount of illness that is being undergone by so many people. The rise of cancer, the rise of different types of cancer, especially breast cancer and some of the more unfamiliar ones that we've all heard of. Would you say in your experience that eating a cooked and processed diet over an adult lifetime, oh, I would say 20 or 30 years, would pretty much guarantee an illness?
A: Well, I would have to talk from my experience.
L: Right.
A: Theorizing is a wonderful thing, but everybody makes that mistake. But looking at it empirically, I'd say from my experience and knowledge and what has happened when people eat lots of raw fat and raw meats and stay away from vegetables and fruits and stuff like that, there's a tremendous healing that happens that reverses disease on the particular diet that I suggest. Now, it isn't that I am totally against vegetation. I'm against whole vegetables because we're not herbivores. An herbivore like a cow, a goat, a deer, a horse has a digestive tract two and a half times longer than ours. Plus, they have two to four stomachs. We only have one. They have 60,000 times the enzymes to disassemble the cellulose molecule, more than we have. So, food passes, whole vegetables pass through us in 24 hours. And an animal that regurgitates its food and chews it and chews it and constantly regurgitates it, takes 48 hours to digest it and still you see the fiber come out in their feces. Humans don't even get anywhere near digesting one-third of it. So what happens is, the bowel has to be all acid for the E. coli, the campylobacter, the salmonella to thrive and feed on it in that area. And it's very important for those bacteria to be alive in the bowel. They produce the amino acids that we need. They synthesize them. They create the backup B vitamins that we need to strengthen the immune system, which is basically the lymphatic system. And if they are not well in an acid environment, they go dormant and die. And that's what whole vegetables do in the system.
L: Whole vegetables are?
A: Leaf stalks and roots, lettuce, celery, parsley, carrots, anything like that. However, on a cooked diet, if you're eating cooked meat, let's say, it turns very acid in the blood and in the system. Eating some raw vegetables with that will help give it some enzymes to keep it moving through so it doesn't putrefy as badly in the body. But when you're on an all-raw diet like I am, whole raw vegetables are not a good thing. They'll cause constipation.
L: Very interesting.
A: They do just the opposite.
L: And so what do you suggest?
A: Vegetable juices, you know, and green vegetable juices, not high carbohydrate like celery. No more than, let's say, 5% for most people of celery, I mean of carrot, but mostly celery and a little parsley.
L: Oh, celery is good.
A: Yes.
L: Okay. And parsley, and keep going, spinach.
A: Spinach in small amounts because some people have a problem with the oxalic acid, it may interfere with some blood activity. Zucchini, cucumber, summer squash of any kind are great. They help pull out the toxic minerals. And let me tell you, living in Los Angeles, we're full of cadmium from, you know, exhaust.
L: Yes. Now, if you sear the summer squash, if you steam it lightly, does that…
A: What it does is it cauterizes the minerals, so it's no longer helping you. Even the steaming process does that. Even the steaming process will destroy your enzymes and cauterize some of your minerals.
L: And so the idea of the body not being able to break down the cellulose level around the vegetable is not true because of the other things that you're eating that associate, I mean that support that?
A: You mean when you're eating it cooked? If you're eating it cooked, you're fracturing the cellulose definitely and the hypothesis is that you can digest it better. However, it's like going into a – it's like saying, okay, I'll break this car in and then after a little while, I'll take it to the junkyard and then going and using junk parts. Basically, it doesn't work very well and it doesn't work very long.
L: Explain why.
A: When you cook foods, it's just like cooking your own arm.
L: Okay.
A: Imagine what happens to it after you cook your arm. It does not function. It breaks it down. All life ceases to exist.
L: Okay.
A: That's if you cook it thoroughly and that only takes about five minutes or less to make your arm insufficient to operate.
L: Okay.
A: And totally will cause gangrene. You'll have to have it removed.
L: Right.
A: It destroys all enzymes depending upon the temperature up to 122 degrees. All enzymes are completely destroyed. Of course, they become crippled at temperatures above 105. Vitamins are destroyed at about 135 degrees yet incapacitated as low as temperatures as 90 degrees, 95, 97 degrees. If they're like the essential fatty acids and fats, they're very sensitive, those particular vitamin F, essential fatty acids. The fats are turned into lipid peroxides which are carcinogenic after many years of storing in the body. The heterocyclic amines are formed from cooked proteins which are also carcinogenic over 20, 30 years in the body. So all of these things create toxins that form and collect because you can't utilize them properly. And every time you eat a cooked meal, your pancreas has to synthesize a hormone that it sends out to every cell in the body and says, I need to leach from you any vitamins and enzymes, proteins, carbohydrates, anything that's pure. I need to leach it from you to use it to handle this cooked food. Otherwise, nobody is going to get anything. And the way the doctors say, well, you can cook your food, your body produces the enzymes. It doesn't produce the enzymes. It leaches the enzymes from every cell. So every time you cook food, you leach from every cell in the body little by little, and you deteriorate it and get it weaker and weaker.
L: And that's why degenerative disease and aging happens much sooner than it should.
A: Right. The Indians who lived on raw foods don't die of disease. They just go to sleep and die.
L: At like 110.
A: Well, some of them, 140 some.
L: Right, right.
A: In Russia.
L: Well, now on that, I was going somewhere with that, but then you just made me think about something else. Where I was going with that was if you do eat vegetables that are slightly cooked, that are steamed, and you break down that cellulose level, could you also support that with eating other raw vegetables? And will it complement each other? Or are you suggesting just not to do the cooking process at all?
A: Well, if you're eating other cooked foods, I suggest you eat whole raw vegetables.
L: Okay, so it does help in some way.
A: Oh, yes, definitely. Any time you eat a raw food, your body doesn't have to leach from itself.
L: But is things like lettuce, like people think salads is their raw food intake for the day, does lettuce contribute at all to that?
A: Yes, if they're on a cooked diet, it does.
L: It does. So the live enzymes in the lettuce does help.
A: Are very important, yes.
L: Okay. I want to talk about some of the things that, the basic question is, what should we live like? What is normal and what do we consider normal? Do we consider living with things like allergies and heartburn and gas and even, you know, if we scrape ourselves, it takes a week to heal. Those things are actually not considered normal to somebody who is on a raw food diet because essentially you don't have any of those ailments, do you?
A: That's correct. When I was born in a very – I was born very ill and in a very hostile environment which was not conducive to relaxing and, you know, emotional stress burns up a lot of B vitamins and protein. And my mother overcooked everything. Everything was well done. How can you call it well and be cooked to death? It doesn't make any sense.
L: It's funny.
A: It's an oxymoron.
L: Never thought about that.
A: Anyway, I had allergies. I was allergic to basically all foods. I would put any cooked vegetable in my mouth, peas, broccoli, asparagus, brussels sprouts, spinach, any of them, and I would instantly vomit.
L: So you were allergic to cooked foods?
A: I was allergic to any food.
L: Oh, goodness.
A: Even, you know, if I ate apples or bananas, I had my diabetes. So, cooked or raw, it was a problem because I never ate the raw meat. I never ate raw milk. So I never had those. So to me, all of those problems, arthritis, diabetes, aches and pains all over my body, indigestion, vomiting, diarrhea, heartburn, headaches.
L: Headaches, right.
A: All of these things were normal and natural for me.
L: They are to a lot of people.
A: Most people think that that's part of life.
L: Right. But it is why there's, I mean, most people live that way because you look at the shelves. You have antacids and aspirins and pain relievers all over the place.
A: And the quick fixes that don't usually work.
L: And they're selling.
A: Well, everybody's desperate. They're hoping. They may take it a thousand times and it barely ever work. And they'll keep taking because they hope one day because the publicity says so, the pharmaceutical industry advertises all the time and it works for everybody. They say, they give these examples of people who do well and are happy and smiling, these actors, and it has nothing to do with reality. They affect maybe about 12, 20 percent of the people. That's all.
L: But I live with, you know, headaches and, you know, stuff like that just because of stress. You know, joint and muscle pain and so forth because of stress on the body. Does all of that necessarily come from the cooked foods?
A: Yes, it does. Well, let me put it this way. I found that people who eat cooked foods have those symptoms regularly and often for long periods of time.
L: Or so, for instance, if I'm not sleeping a lot and stressing my body out yet I'm eating a raw food diet, it will balance it out a little bit more?
A: It will do a lot better. People – this diet is not a magic diet. You have to be born, you know, in that kind of environment to be perfectly healthy. So if you've eaten cooked foods, you've deteriorated your body. Your body doesn't rebuild itself overnight. It doesn't tear – it's like redoing New York City overnight. You can't do it. You take a wall at a time or a brick at a time. You disassemble it and you reassemble it with the right foods. So it takes time. However – so it doesn't stop all of those symptoms. Headaches are a sign of high salt, sodium chloride in the blood or some other toxin in the blood that causes the brain to swell. And the skull is not expanding along with it. So it puts pressure on the nerves. People who are on a raw diet will experience these things. But the headaches will be 30% to 60% less. Last 95% less time.
L: I see.
A: All of these aches and pains, you'll still have them, but they eventually go away over the years. Now, I've only been eating raw meat on a daily basis from one to three pounds a day since 1982, December of 82. So it's been almost two years, 19 years for me eating meat on a daily basis. And that's when everything changed for me. I am only halfway. It takes 40 years to go from ill health to optimal health, according to some researchers like Pottenger and Howell. I'm only halfway, but I'm already satisfied. I rarely – I never am depressed, and I was always chronically depressed, suicidal, manic-depressive. I was all of those things. I don't think I've experienced it in about two or three years, not a day.
L: So the food has elevated your mood?
A: Elevated the mood, and it's taken all my other aches and pains. There was a time after I got the multiple myeloma, the blood and bone cancer, that if the temperature hit 50 degrees, I was crippled. I could not move because of the pain. Now, maybe a couple of days a year I may experience a little bit in one particular joint but not all over the body.
L: And you attribute this to live enzymes in live foods.
A: And live proteins, live everything. Foods that haven't been degenerated by cooking or processing.
L: Let's talk a little bit about the fats, if we can. It seems to be something that you've mentioned a lot and has a significant effect on the body. Good fats, what are they and in what state should we look for them?
A: Well, after experimenting with so many over the years, the ones that proved most effective are raw butter, number one.
L: And that's in the stores, right?
A: No, you won't be able to find it in the stores.
L: Even though it says raw butter, it's not really raw butter.
A: There's no such thing as raw butter in your stores. You've got natural butter, but it's all from pasteurized. So you have to go to a farmer. There are some places that produce it. There are telephone numbers that you can get, things like that.
L: And they can find that from maybe your website has all that stuff on it too.
A: Well, they can call 310-226-7055.
L: Okay.
A: And leave their number, and people can get back to them about where they can get these items.
L: Okay, great.
A: But they can be gotten. For raw milk you can go right into a store and pick up the raw milk.
L: Nice. Okay. Now?
A: Butter was the best. I find that with that, people relax, heal, are happier in general.
L: And you don't keep the butter in the refrigerator, do you?
A: Yes, I do.
L: Oh, you do?
A: Until I'm ready to, you know, I'll take my pound out that I'm going to use for two days. I eat about a pound every two days, sometimes three days. Sometimes I eat a whole pound a day. And do I look fat to you?
L: No, no. No, he's not. You eat a pound of butter a day?
A: Sometimes I eat a pound of butter a day.
L: Wow.
A: Sometimes I've eaten two pounds of butter a day. After that poison mushroom I had to.
L: On what? Oh, yes.
A: I just spoon it out. When you get it raw and you've been on this diet a while, it's just so tasty. Or you mix it with a little unheated honey. It makes it very tasty. Or you can mix it with meat, you know. Mix some garlic with the butter and you've got garlic butter and you put it with meat. It's delicious.
L: A lot of good recipes you have.
A: Oh, yeah. Definitely. So other fats are raw eggs. Raw eggs are fantastic. I've heard of lots of octogenarians years ago that used to throw a raw egg into their beer, into their milk and drink it down.
L: And then what about the salmonella issue? We have to bring this up.
A: Again, the salmonella is not a problem. That's all superstition.
L: Because?
A: You've got salmonella all over your body. It's a natural part of you. Believing that salmonella – there was an article done by a wonderful reporter named Emily Green, and she wrote The Great Egg Panic in January 4th at LA Times, 2000. January 4th, 2000. It put the biggest hole in the whole salmonella health department fear because Clinton's administration, by the pressure from the FDA and health departments, was going to irradiate or pasteurize or sterilize all eggs before they went into the markets. And she challenged that with incredible science. It's a great article, and it's true.
L: So –
A: There's not a threat. The threat is salmonella helps break down degenerative tissue, including cancer. Yale University has been using salmonella to shrink tumors.
L: So you're saying salmonella is propaganda?
A: No. Salmonella is a real thing, but that it causes disease it does not. Think about it this way. Parasites, salmonella, E. coli, campylobacter, all of those bacteria and virus and parasites that help break down tissue are nothing other than vultures and crows and worms. They don't cause any degeneration. They just come to where it happens. It's like the vultures and the crows don't kill the animals that they eat.
L: I see what you're saying.
A: They are called for when there's degeneration.
L: So most people are in a state of degeneration because most people eat a cooked food diet, which breaks down everything. So the salmonella we may have in our body, but if we are eating cooked foods, it attacks the areas that are degenerate.
A: Correct, and it doesn't matter whether you're eating cooked or raw. If you have degeneration, you're going to have salmonella activity. You're going to have E. coli activity.
L: Hmm, so...
A: And the University of Toronto, in association with the Children's Hospital of Toronto, has been using the Veritoxin, that bad thing from E. coli, for 20 years. They are shrinking human brain tumors in 2-7 days, including the vessels that go to it.
L: With doing what?
A: With E. coli, injecting E. coli into the tumors, into the human brain tumors.
L: And this is working because...
A: This is working, because that's naturally what they do. They help dissolve dead cells. And that's what tumors are, dead cells, except for the cancer cell. The cancer cell, when you have malignant cancer, that means that you've got a few live cells. You've got one cancer cell spread around 50 dead cells. And the cancer cell is basically like an aesthete or a monk. It communicates with the world through its extrasensory perceptions or whatever. And it doesn't eat. But it multiplies rapidly. But what it can do is it can keep that area in tune with the brain and the nervous system. So those cancer cells are very important. Only cancer cells can dissolve in a matter of a few days. Benign tumors, which have no cancer cells, take years and years and years or may never dissolve. When a cancer cell dies, it puts out a serum, an acid, which will melt all the surrounding tumor, all the surrounding dead cells. It's like a solvent.
L: That's why people can live in remission for so long.
A: Exactly. That's why people can go into spontaneous remission.
L: Right. Right. And as you had done as well, not spontaneous, but you have lived in remission for 29 years.
A: 33.
L: Oh, sorry. The book was written a while ago.
A: Yes.
L: Sorry. Okay. So what you're saying...
A: But it took me 11 years to get well. I had multiple cancers and I was at death's door.
L: And you did this, of course, all through your eating style.
A: Yes.
L: Through dietary methods.
A: Correct.
L: And you didn't do it through any type of medicine?
A: Nope. When the medical therapy got finished with me, I was a semi-invalid.
L: Uh-huh.
A: To go from the bathroom to the couch... I had to live on the couch. And to go from the couch to the bathroom, which was about 20 feet, I had to crawl on my elbows. It would take me about 30 minutes. To go to the kitchen was the same thing. So I had people helping me.
L: Huh. And so you did your own research and you found out the information.
A: Correct.
L: Which has gotten you to this place. I'm speaking with Aajonus?
A: Aajonus.
L: Aajonus. I've been saying it wrong. Aajonus. You said like homogenous, but Aajonus.
A: Yes.
L: Aajonus Vonderplanitz. And you can find out the spelling of his name on our website, The Aware Show website. Just type in today's date or it's A-A-J-O-N-U-S. I'm actually going to give you his website.
A: Yes.
L: Okay. His website is www.wewant2live.com. That is also the name of his book. Wewant2live.com. It gives you the first part of the book is a really wonderfully written story of his life and how he had experienced illnesses of himself and his loved ones and everybody else who had surrounded him and his experience with it really. Then the second part of the book talks about ideas that we've been kind of briefly touching on on the show about live foods, about raw foods, why they work, why they heal, all about processed and cooked foods and how and why they create disease and a lot of foods to eat. We didn't even talk about the raw honey, which is something also, and the cooking aspects. You can find out about all this information in his book, which is still available today.
A: Yes, absolutely. There's also another website that has a little bit more information than that one. It's called primaldiet.com, www.primaldiet.com.
L: I didn't check that one out. That's Primal Diet because most of our ancestors ate like that?
A: Well, no, because it's primal. Paleolithic is the idea of our ancestors, but that's more theoretical and they eat insects and they don't eat butter and they don't eat dairy and stuff like that, but this is primal, meaning base.
L: Okay. I see. Wonderful. There's also an 800 number here for those who are not online, 800-247-6553, where people can... Oh, and also that phone number you gave earlier about people wanting to find... I'll have this if anybody emails me, but it's 310 for people that want to find raw items. Is that right? Yeah. 310-226-7055, and we'll have all this information on the awareshow.com if you are driving and you can't write right now. Thank you so much.
L: Thank you. It's been wonderful. As I said earlier in the show, this is about opening your mind to new concepts and new ways of thinking, and that's exactly what you do.
A: Well, thank you.
L: Thank you.
A: Well, life did it to me. I had no choice.
L: Yes, you are a living example of everything. Well, thank you so much, Aajonus.
A: Thank you. Great. Thank you, Lisa.
L: All right. We'll speak very soon. Okay. Some people, callers have asked how they can register for a free ticket to the Wednesday night event and just go to www.theawareshow.com. There's a win tickets here blinking display on there and you can just register right there. And all the information about the upcoming seminar with Bruce Lipton and Rob Williams is on there as well. The 800 number to call for that is 800-245-9463. And while I'm committed to bringing you the clearest information possible, in the end, I always encourage you to listen to your very own truth. Until tomorrow, I invite you to stay aware.