Early Training with Aajonus (1996)

Training With Aajonus

Early Training With Aajonus. Observations and Techniques - 1996

Table of Contents

"I will have all the information in books. They won't need me when I have all the information; that's what I'm working on. Everybody will be able to take care of themselves if I give everybody enough information."

Aajonus Vonderplanitz


This rare view of Aajonus shows him as a flower first blooming in the springtime.

He already has the depth of knowledge that he will display throughout the coming years.

In this 3-day Primal Diet™training, he tells us details about how his iridology is different than what is commonly taught. He lays out things here that do not appear in his books, in his Q&As or Primal Diet workshops or later interviews.

How do you really look at a person and see their health and their needs? He casually lays out some clues.

Is this what he planned to teach way in the future in his ideal location in Thailand? In about 2007 he showed me the actual blueprint where the interns — on a 3 year apprenticeship – would practice under his close guidance.

The format of this 3-day class in 1996 is an interview with a very knowledgeable nutritionist. The interviewer encourages Aajonus to clarify many subjects of interest to anyone seeking health.

In this 3-day class, in simple terms he clarifies where other dietary approaches to health fall short. He gives remedies and recipes by which to recover health. He covers a tremendous variety of subjects.

Find out:

 Why eat meat?

 How to be able to concentrate your attention

 What fruits and what meats are best for an overly anxious person

 Advice to bodybuilders

and more and more.

Have fun with this! If you are like me, you may want to take notes and to print out Aajonus’s recipes and remedies that are most important to you now. Then review this a few times each year for new insights.

Highest regards,
Jim Ellingson


— Okay, the first question. What about hot drinks? Herb teas, grain beverages, things like that. What do you feel about those things? Do you ever have any hot drinks yourself?

Aajonus: No. I don’t. In terms of the digestive tract, acidic. It complicates protein digestion, not so much fat digestion. You will then utilize a lot of fats that the body then has to cleanse out of the system. And it does interfere with sugar digestion as well, the acidity. So if I am going to have a hot drink, I may heat up some water and then wait until it cools down to where it doesn’t burn my finger, and then I may add some lemon and honey to it. But that is a very rare occasion that I have ever done that, and that’s the way I suggest other people consume it. If they are going to heat it, heat it and then let it cool down.

— So really, no hot beverages.

Aajonus: No.

— Sally... she’s addicted to her tea. Non-caffeine, but...

Aajonus: However, what she can do is... I have one client who taught me this. She would take fresh hot peppers, blend it with some lemon and blend it until the blender got warm, the water in the blender got warm and the peppers make it seem hot. And they do really the same thing. They will heat up the body. The hot peppers with the honey and lemon raise the blood pressure and that is mostly what people drink the coffee or tea for, to get them a boost. But it is a toxic boost, rather than a beneficial boost. [Recipe]

— How do you feel about herbal tinctures, decoctions, etc.?

Aajonus: Well, I used to do things like that to stop a flu, and then I realized how flus were beneficial, I stopped doing it and I just helped people to detox well and to heal well, and not to stop the flu. Because stopping the flu stops the body cleaning itself.

— So, someone would just eat the way he normally eats?

Aajonus: No, I would have them eat anywhere from four to seven smoothies a day. So that’s anywhere from eight or nine to eighteen eggs a day. You blend the eggs with banana, cream if you have it, honey, or just banana and egg or orange juice and egg. [Recipe]

— And the reasoning behind that for flu?

Aajonus: Eggs are one of the most powerful detoxifiers. They bind very quickly with the toxins. As they come out, they can arrest them. The extra cream is even better because it soothes the tissues. The banana allows a lot of potassium to soothe the burning effect. And also a lot of lactic acid may build up and it helps relax any irritation.

— And what about addressing the actual viral element?

Aajonus: The virus is never the problem. The virus is there to break down, to dissolve the matter. So the virus is your friend. And I always tell my female clients this – do not stop a cold. It is your natural face lift. And it’s a cheap one. Of course it won’t last as long as if you go for a face lift.

— So the idea is that the viruses, the bacteria, the pathogenic microorganisms are flourishing because they have toxic material to feed on.

Aajonus: Correct.

— So you are going to eliminate the toxic material and that will eliminate...

Aajonus: Right, the exhaustion theory.

— One thing Sally’s got that comes up a lot is what we call "heebie jeebies", and I’ve always associated it with a calcium/magnesium deficiency where the legs become restless. People sometimes call it "restless leg syndrome". You just can’t keep your legs still. It occurs in her even with calcium/magnesium supplements (and they help). Are you familiar with it this?

Aajonus: Yes. After the poison mushroom I had it terribly. It’s a severe fat deficiency in the muscle tissues. No way to relieve the lactic acid. By supplying the mineral salts, you are providing an absorbent medium, but it will not handle it in the long run. In fact, it will start building up cakes of minerals in the muscle tissue, bones and joints.

— It will build up minerals? Which is not good?

Aajonus: Without fat you cannot carry anything out of the body.

— So, you are saying that it turns into deposits that can’t be removed.

Aajonus: Right. So she probably has a great deal of it stored in her legs.

— So she should basically eat raw eggs.

Aajonus: No, she needs raw cream right away to soothe the tissue. She needs to get the tissue soothed. That’s another thing that we need to talk about.

You don’t want to go in on a client and clean them out first. That’s not the main objective. The main objective is to calm the body down, to soothe it as much as possible. I’ve had a lot of clients who are also in the profession and they like to go right in and clean out the problem. When they do it they freak out the client, because their poor body starts going through terrible stuff. I say, get the body as relaxed as you can first, then put them through it. And it will happen naturally anyway. Always go toward soothing the body.

So, if we know that those deposits are in her muscles, but we don’t worry about that. That will clean out in its own time. So you supply the cream. The cream is the best for soothing tissue. Butter is next best if you don’t have the cream. If somebody can get it and make it properly — coconut cream is even better than butter. But you have to be able to juice it in a Champion juicer. It’s not as good as cream. [Remedy]

— So the cream has a soothing quality. What is it in the cream that makes it that way?

Aajonus: Well, when it goes into the body it is still water soluble where butter is not. So the body can take it into places where it won’t normally go, and your body doesn’t have to deal with breaking the fat down into a water soluble substance. It doesn’t have to bind it with lecithin or any other of the emulsifying compounds to get it into a cell. It’s already emulsified. It’s already broken down into that vehicle. But once you make it into butter, you’ve changed it from that and the body has to... it doesn’t have to do a lot with it, but it still has to put it through a process. And when you are healing somebody, you want to give them stuff that is most easily utilizable and assimilable, and that way it relaxes everything.

— So in that initial phase then, would you minimize the amount of butter and meat in that time while you are preparing a person for the detoxing phase?

Aajonus: No, I give them as much... It depends upon the individual. That is always what you have to know. Nobody is the same, and never look at anybody comparing them with anybody else, because if you do that, you are going to be thrown off.

— Well, let me ask you this question then. Is it primarily the iridology that you use then, as well as your conversation with them? What are the primary factors that you use to gauge how you are going to approach a particular individual? What are the elements?

Aajonus: I do look at iridology. I look at skin on the elbows, on the hands, and the wrists. And I like to check the knees and the feet if they are an elderly person, because I can tell basically what’s going on in the joints by doing that. And also sometimes I will check teeth. I am looking at them all the time and I can tell whether they are capped or anything like that. So, skin, joints, eyes, teeth. If I have somebody with very dark, black circles I know that there is a liver problem.

— What about kidneys?

Aajonus: If they have puffiness along with the darkness I will include the kidneys. But if there is not puffiness and dark circles, I know there is a liver problem.

— Now she and I both tend to have dark rings here. And I am noticing that slowly it’s lightening up, and I started to see it, and I figure that is just a general liver detoxification, rather than taking the olive oil and the garlic and the herbs with the liver flush that I normally use.

Aajonus: To me, all those approaches are radical. The body will always, as long as it’s nurtured, cleanse itself when it’s time. And when it’s time the person is usually more prepared and ready for it.

— But if someone were seriously ill or close to death, wouldn’t you approach that somewhat more radically?

Aajonus: Nope. I have found that every time I did that they would go into a worse state, because then they would have to deal with not only the complication of their disease, but also the complication of a severely toxic system that hasn’t been strengthened first.

— Because you are pulling stuff out too fast and too aggressively.

Aajonus: In some people who have a very sluggish digestive system and who have a tendency to be obese (with very watery flesh in their obesity) – they usually have a great deal of difficulty digesting fats. They just cannot break them down. There are about 60 varieties of cholesterol that the body manufactures. The person may only digest a third of those, do very well with that third, but the other two-thirds they can’t handle at all. So it just stores. They can’t get rid of it, they can’t do anything with it. To people like that I will only give raw cream once every other day because it will make them even more sluggish.

— The cream will.

Aajonus: Right. So have them eat more butter.

— Why will the cream make them more sluggish and the butter not?

Aajonus: Even though it’s more absorbable, for some reason there is some kind of enzyme or something missing that even if it’s raw cream and very easily available, they can’t break it down.

— Well, maybe it’s the lactose, because butter doesn’t have much lactose does it?

Aajonus: I know, but there are other minerals that they may not be digesting as well, that are missing in butter. And there is very little lactose in cream. Very little, because they make the butter from the cream.

But again, more of the whey leaves it and it doesn’t have even as much lactose as that, but a lactose intolerance, I don’t detect that kind of reaction in many of them. So I can tell it’s a complex problem. So I do want them to have the cream, and they do love it. I even let them make ice cream if they want raw ice cream. But they have to eat it within 24 hours of making it.

— If they are the obese type you wouldn’t want them to have the cream, is that what you said?

Aajonus: Not every day. Every other day.

— Okay. But they can have the butter every day and the raw meat every day?

Aajonus: Right. So what we have to do is replace enzymes that they don’t have that break down fats. So I will look at all the citrus, especially pineapple and I also include papaya in that. Papaya isn’t as necessary. That’s more of a protein digestant. But I will include a lot of pineapple. Maybe have a slice of pineapple a day. A circular slice this thin and I always tell them to wash it off first. Take a bottle brush and brush and rinse it off, because the worse pesticide is on pineapple. The deadliest and worst.

If I touch a pineapple and I get near my face, my eyes will turn red, my nose will start running, and I start sneezing. Some people are highly allergic to that. They meant that poison, not only for the insects, but for the people who used to raid the pineapple fields and still do.

So people who start loading them up as they are packing, they get all of this stuff on them and they can start bleeding from the nose. So you need to wash it off before you slice it circularly. Put it face down on the plate and that will seal it. It preserves it. You don’t take the outside skin off. You cut a slice at a time and just trim that circular slice that you are eating at the time.

— Can you eat as much pineapple as you like?

Aajonus: If you are attracted to it, yes. But never force anybody to eat any more than they can, because I’ve seen mouths start bleeding from the acidity. The enzymes are so strong that they can dissolve tissue.

— So pineapple and papaya. Pineapple breaks down fat better than papaya. The papain is mostly for protein.

Aajonus: Yes, and the bromelain is mostly for fat.

— What about mango?

Aajonus: Mangos, aren’t really a digestant for fats or meats. All fruit helps break it down, of course, through enzymatic activity. Eating fat with fruit is beneficial. Vegetable juices are a high source of enzymes. But I like people to take vegetable juices with protein. The enzymes, vitamins and minerals in vegetable juice help digest protein in meats. Not many people can eat the beef with fruit. Fish and fruit are fine together.

— Really. Any fruit?

Aajonus: Yes. Absolutely any fruit can be eaten with fish.

— But the beef with pineapple might work.

Aajonus: Beef with pineapple will work, yes. And papaya with beef will work.

When I look at an individual, I just start going through things to see what is prominent. Dry skin? Obese? Too thin? Retaining water? I just go through and I ask why is this happening?

Then I will look in the eyes and see what glands aren’t functioning properly. I will see which ones are toxic. I will see how many cells are alive in the body and in what part of the system. So I can just break it down and I can get an overall look at how long it’s going to take this person to get well.

We are looking at maybe a 35-year period or more to get to optimal health. Figure that the body takes 7 years to replace every cell. Then it takes five to six generations eating an excellent raw diet like this for each cell to evolve to a place of optimal health. So you are really looking at about 35 to 42 years to be as optimal as an individual can be.

— And yet you have begun to turn around these cancer cases in 30 days.

Aajonus: Yes, but that’s just turning it around. It isn’t healing them in 30 days. But they are already on the road to recovery at that point.

— And the tumors are starting to diminish?

Aajonus: No. It usually takes about 2 years to start to diminish the tumors. It depends. I’ll give you a few cases. Owanza, for example, was not too thin. She couldn’t eat anything by the time she came to me, but she came to me just in time. It had been 6 or 7 weeks in that condition and she forced herself to eat olive oil and things like that just to keep going. And she would vomit and vomit and vomit. But she still came to me with some meat on her bones, which means that there will be less tumors formed since there is more muscle mass to store the dead cells.

I had two clients come who were on their death bed. They came to me two months ago. Now I explained to one, "It’s going to take three years for you to come back, to really even get stable." Tumors throughout her system. And way too thin. So I had nowhere to work. "Now, it’s going to be 3 years of literal hell. You are going to be vomiting many times a day. There is no way I can take you through it by just nurturing the body. If you want to go through that for that long or let me try to nurture you and extend it even further. It could take six years."

— To make it less hard on her?

Aajonus: Yes. I said, "It’s up to you. If it were my choice, I’d die." I told her right out. I wouldn’t go through it. If I were 56 years old, I wouldn’t go through it. I would leave this body and pick up another. And she said, "No, I’m going to do it." I said, "Okay, we’ll take the challenge and we’ll do it." So she went through it, and she saw herself getting stronger, feeling better, being more positive, but she could tell that it was going to be a long road. She said, "You know something, I think I’m going to leave." She died four days later, in her sleep. Very nice. And the hospice coordinator asked her "What are the things you want to clear up since you’ve decided to go?" She said the first thing on her list was to call me, telling me thank you for giving her permission to go. So she died.

— Did she start to experience the vomiting and so on during that initial period?

Aajonus: Very little.

— What causes that?

Aajonus: Dead cells dumping into the blood and the blood can’t put it all in the bowels so it puts it in the stomach, and it can get rid of it quickly through vomiting without burning and harming the intestines.

— In a situation like that, wouldn't it be useful to do a certain amount of bowel cleansing and herbal formulas to help detoxify the colon and blood stream? Why wouldn’t that be an adjunctive treatment to the diet?

Aajonus: Well, the cooked starch is that adjunct. If you go cleaning out the bowel, you are going to disturb the entire equilibrium of bacteria and villi. Your body synthesizes 18 amino acids in the bowel. If you have an enema, it takes about 45 days to reestablish a proper bacterial environment.

— Well, the feeling is that people are usually so toxic and so out of balance in that part of the body to begin with that the disturbance of the environment would be much the lesser of two evils.

Aajonus: That’s the theory but I found that it doesn’t work in practice, because I tried it. It creates more pain, because the less

proteins you have in the body (those amino acids) the more pain you will have, the more sensitive and irritable you will be. So I say, no way. Let’s relax and go through it and be happy. Don’t beat the body up.

— So for somebody that’s having a hard time eliminating or is constipated and so on, it’s the fats that will begin to change all of that and clean out the colon, and change the digestion altogether?

Aajonus: Right. Now there are a lot of people who like bowel movements. I’ve got one client, she’ll be 59. She came to me 4 months ago with multiple problems. She had severe weight loss – and I mean she had absolutely nothing but skin on her bones. She was down to about 92 pounds, I think. She is about 5’2". She had chronic constipation for 10 years, and had never been able to have a bowel movement during that time without some kind of laxative. Vaginal bleeding. Intestinal cramps. Muscle atrophy. That was part of the weight loss. Cirrhosis of the entire glandular system, especially the liver. Ninety percent of it cirrhosed. Mucus membrane and skin dryness. She would bleed out of her nose too, as well as her vagina. Chronic pain in the liver and pancreas. Hiatal hernia. Hiatal inflammation. Constant hunger. Some other minor problems. She probably would have been dead in six weeks.

— And you diagnosed that from the eyes and from talking with her?

Aajonus: Yes. Her telling me all the symptoms that she has. I ask them their symptoms as well. She has gained 22 pounds now in almost 5 months. She looks 10 years younger. She never gets hungry any longer. And that is because she is eating foods that she can utilize. But she has this chronic thing about having so much fecal matter pass out of her body every day and those people think there is something wrong if it doesn’t.

— Well, it’s an indoctrination that is prevalent. Like Schulze says, it should be twice a day.

Aajonus: No, I say, as it happens, it will happen – on this diet. And I say to most people, if you start on this diet you are likely not to have a bowel movement for 3 or 4 days at a time. 2 or 3 at the least, because your body is absorbing absolutely everything – it can utilize everything.

— Because the raw fats are dissolving and breaking things down?

Aajonus: Everything. Your body is finally able to utilize something, so it’s not going to throw anything off until it starts getting rid of old stuff. But very often a body will absorb and utilize everything to stabilize before detoxifying.

— I’ve noticed it’s cut back in my own case. But what comes out is very clean, efficient and there is no odor.

Aajonus: Well, in her case, because she was in such a bad condition, it came out black, and the odor could kill an elephant. And I said, that’s probably the liver and other glandular tissue dumping. That’s how sick your system was. That’s going to happen, and every time it happens you say, "That’s part of that old dead matter leaving me that’s causing me all that pain."

Now, her liver and her pancreas still cause her pain, great heaviness in there because she has carried that around for 25 years. Doctors were never able to find out what it was. And it probably will take a full year and a half before all that pain will go, that heaviness will go. I set her up for that because it will take that long to get that body well. But all of the other problems are gone — all of the other symptoms have resolved – and within five months, including the headaches, the migraines.

— She wasn’t a cancer patient, was she?

Aajonus: No. She was pretty close to it. She would have gone into cancer. Like I said, she would have been dead within six weeks. Cancer, as I say in the book, is mainly the inability to discard dead cells. People have cirrhosed tissue. That’s what they have. Dead matter in their system. It just hasn’t yet gotten to creating tumors. Now, you will see that a lot of the people who are diagnosed as having cancer mainly have cirrhossed tissue throughout their body. The cells have gotten so dehydrated because they are not lubricated and die and the body cannot remove them, so it just solidifies the tissue. And let’s say it’s in a passageway where nutrients are supplied and it blocks that off – then anything going to that area will all of a sudden harden the whole area. And the doctors treat it as if it were a forming cancer instead of treating it as a dry condition.

— Which is mostly what we are looking at?

Aajonus: And in either case it’s the lack of fats, digestible, utilizable fats.

— So if you were to do a biopsy on a tumor and pull tissue out from the center of a tumor, would you mostly find dead cells. And what is the difference between a dead cell and a cancerous cell that is multiplying?

Aajonus: Well, the cancerous cell is the cell which can be surrounded by death. It is like a hermit or an ascetic who can go out and be by himself without communication with anybody else. Because a cell that is surrounded by fifty dead cells is isolated. Where does it get its nutrients?

It can produce this fluid, this prostaglandin, which actually will dissolve the tumor. So it is like a plant or a tree – it actually dissolves matter and absorbs the nutrients out of that matter. Now, the cancer cell is there to maintain communication on a psychic level, on a radionic level, with the body, so that part of the system is not completely cut off. Also, that cancer cell will produce fluids to break that dead tissue down.

— The cancer cell?

Aajonus: Yes. The cancer cell secretes the serum which dissolves the tumor.

— So, again, like the bacteria and the virus, you are saying it’s a friend.

Aajonus: It’s a friend. Absolutely.

— So what about the multiplying factor of the cancer cell producing more cancer cells?

Aajonus: To be able to dissolve more of that dead matter.

— So it’s a survival mechanism.

Aajonus: Yes, exactly. But people are so filled antibiotics and all those things, and they’ve accumulated so many dead cells in the body, that when it comes to the point of developing into cancer, they really can’t recover easily. But the body is always working toward healing itself.

— And they’ve missed the forest for the trees?

Aajonus: Exactly.

— They are looking at the cancer cells instead of the actual problem which is the accumulated debris?

Aajonus: Exactly.

— And that’s what you meant in the book when you said that cancer cells are the caretakers.

Aajonus: Exactly.

— They are actually trying to eliminate toxicity. You said something before about muscle tissue that I didn’t understand.

Aajonus: Consider a person who has little muscle tissue. For instance, I’ve got this one client with tumors all over here all over. Now, she went through ozone therapy and then came here and nothing was working, and she was getting weaker and weaker. Again, skin and bones. Now, when I see somebody like that, my point of view is not to even consider the cancer. They have got to get some muscle meat on them. The muscle tissue is where the body can store those dead cells without building tumors. And I know that somebody that is building tumors like this is not going to stop building those tumors until there is somewhere else to put those dead cells.

— So the dead cells store in the muscle tissue rather than in the fat.

Aajonus: No. The muscles will always hold their own fat. It will be marbled throughout the system. So it will be in the fat, and some in the actual muscle tissues, but sparsely. It’s like scar tissue. There are live cells interspersed throughout scar tissue, but mainly scar tissue is dead matter, dead cells. Well, that can happen anywhere in the body. And if your body can contain that, it won’t develop into a tumor.

So, I need to build her up. But she is so far advanced, in so much pain, and on morphine. So I am having a real struggle with her, because she can’t eat enough. She loses her appetite easily and she’s got these things growing. Lately, she’s had some good days. She’s been mostly bedridden for about fifty days now. But she keeps having a few more good strong days where she can actually get out of bed and do something. So I know that it’s working, but I don’t know whether I’m going to win or if the tumors are just going to arrest her functioning before the healing takes over. So, somebody who has little or no muscle meat in their system and has tumors growing, well it’s a real challenge. You don’t know whether they are going to come through it.

— In other words, putting the muscle meat back on the body provides a repository for this material to go to.

Aajonus: Right, without having to build tumors.

— And now that it has a place to go, will the cancer cells start to break down what tumors have already developed?

Aajonus: Correct. As long as the body has the nutrients to feed the whole system. So I have her on a total building diet.

— Does that include a lot of juices?

Aajonus: No, juices mean that you are going to start dissolving matter and cleaning out. I’ve got her drinking juices, but not without cream, or not without oils. She has to have fat with absolutely everything. In any sick person, that’s mainly what I deal with. Always give them the fats. Never have them take a juice alone, because then you are dealing with a detox that will create pain, and you are putting matter in there which will dissolve and break down decay or debris without the fats to chelate with and take it out of the body. They could have an aneurism, a heart attack. There are many different complications that could arise. That’s why doctors lose so many people.

— And when the fat combines with the toxins that the juice is pulling out, it takes it out?

Aajonus: To the bowels and then out.

— Primarily the bowels?

Aajonus: Right.

— When you drink fresh raw juices, do you usually have fat with it?

Aajonus: Always.

— So, even if you are in good shape, do that as a general rule.

Aajonus: Yes. Well, I shouldn’t say always. Most of the time, I do. Ninety-five percent of the time I do. It’s a great principle.

— Would you discuss combinations of fats and juices? How does that work?

Aajonus: That’s a whole subject we will go into again. Right now I am trying to give you an overview, and then we will get more specific. But write that down so that you can ask me that question again.

— Have these principles and understandings come about through your own insights, your own intuition, your own healing ordeal? Or would you say that a lot of this information has come to you in a subtle way – the new age terms would be channeling. In other words, do you feel like you are getting information from somewhere, or through your own explorations?

Aajonus: Well, it’s from all of it. I have very good intuition now. It’s easier for me now. I used to over-work my brain. I would take one client and rack my brains with them for maybe a week before I would figure it, reason it out, and still not get a resolution. It would help but not really win the game.

Also my nutritionist, the one who was my tutor for three and a half years – Bruno – had a fat phobia. I think he died of AIDS. He didn’t die of AIDS, he died of the chemical process involved in treating it. Because he was always so natural. He had a weight problem, so he was very fat phobic. And he would say, "Don’t eat that fat. Don’t eat that fat." I craved it. And I would eat the fat because I craved it, and I would feel better. My psoriasis would subside. Ninety percent of my problems would just subside.

— Raw fats.

Aajonus: Yes, raw fats.

— So you were just attracted to raw fats.

Aajonus: Yes, I craved them.


Aajonus: And when I would eat the fat with meat, and I would eat a lot, like avocados and raw cream. At the time we could get a truly cold pressed wheat germ oil, and I would consume that, and he would catch me. "You can’t do that. You can’t do that." And after a few years of that – and I always felt better when I ate the fats – that’s when I moved away from him.

— He wasn’t teaching you about the use of raw meat or any of this.

Aajonus: No. He taught me about raw foods, but not raw meat. He was bacteria phobic as well as fat phobic. So, to my knowledge, he never considered raw meat. He was for raw milk, raw eggs, raw everything but not meats.

— So, there is a relationship between the fat, whether it be avocado or dairy, etc. and the enzymes in the fruit or the honey, that help break it down.

Aajonus: Exactly

— Doesn't the honey affect blood sugar levels?

Aajonus: No. The honey, if it’s unheated honey, is mostly utilized as enzymes. It doesn’t raise the blood sugar much at all. Usually the body transforms unheated honey into enzymes for practically everything – 90% percent of it is utilized that way. Honey helps break down fat. And as far as fruit is concerned, when you eat fruit or fruit juice with a fat, not only do the enzymes in the fruit break down the fat, but the fat time releases the sugars.

Human animals don’t usually eat much fruit. The fruit is part of the citric acid cycle. The sugars burn the fats. Twenty percent of the energy to burn eighty percent of the energy. So, it’s like the firecap in a bullet. That’s what sugar is. It helps ignite the fat.

So the sugars automatically go into the fats, start coupling with the fats, and are then time-released in the system. So you don’t have that sugar up and sugar down phenomenon which you can have with raw fruits and even with carrot juice – manic and depressive.

— And the enzymes in the juice are breaking down the fat.

Aajonus: Right.

— Isn’t raw food supposed to contain the enzymes to break itself down

- like avocado, or raw milk or cheese? Isn’t that the whole point of raw?

Aajonus: If this were a perfect world and we didn’t eat a lot of cooked foods and we didn’t leach everything out of our bodies anyway, you could eat one food and it would be perfect. It could digest itself. But most people cannot digest avocado or any of the fats by themselves.

Even protein – I find that it’s better to eat some fat with it. Because then the toxicity which occurs as a reaction to the acidity or any kind of a chain reaction from the change over in chemicals, will be absorbed by the presence of the fats.

— When you say protein, you mean meat?

Aajonus: Yes, meats. Any kind of meats.

— So eat fats with meat.

Aajonus: Exactly. For example, I have a lot of clients who only like lean cuts. They will not eat the fat from the beef. So I tell them to have butter with it.

— Or avocado.

Aajonus: Or avocado.

— Or take a raw egg and mix it in with the ground beef.

Aajonus: Exactly.

— If you read Howell’s book and if you talk to people who have been practicing raw diet for a while, they believe that everything that is raw can digest itself and yet so many people have trouble digesting the raw diet, especially if they are taking it in the form of a lot of salad and they are not breaking down the cellulose and so on.

Aajonus: They can’t anyway.

— So, then that’s part of the reason to juice vegetables as much as possible?

Aajonus: You’ve got to replace the enzymes that have been leached as a result of twenty to sixty years of eating cooked foods, because they have been leached out of your body. That’s why the body has deteriorated in the first place. It lacks the enzymes because they have been leached out of the body. You don’t’ get many enzymes from the fat. You get them from vegetable juices and fruits. That’s why I suggest that anybody who adopts this diet drink vegetable juice twice a day.

— Two eight ounce glasses?

Aajonus: Yes. Any more than that and they are going to detox too fast unless they are a sporty person, athletic person, someone who perspires a lot and burns up a lot of sugars. If they can burn up, fine. They can drink a gallon a day if they are very active. But an individual who is not an athletic individual, and who is ill, shouldn’t drink any more than 2 glasses per day because it will cause a detox. I found that two cups is normally enough to replenish the system and help digest what is being eaten without going to the point of detoxing.

— How much vegetable juice versus fruit juice? More vegetable than fruit?

Aajonus: Not necessarily. I always ask them, "What foods are you craving?"

— And how do we differentiate between the things that the body truly needs and the things that the mind is interpreting as a craving – our chocolate addictions and such? Of course, it’s within the framework of the raw diet only.

Aajonus: I say, if you have a craving for chocolate, eat as much as you want.

— You mean the raw Carob Fudge recipe.

Aajonus: Yes. Eat as much as you want. You can pig out on it and all of a sudden after a few days, you are losing weight from it, and you’ve got no more craving for it. It never returns like that. Never returns.

— That’s great. What you are telling me explains why Instincto Therapy is working to the degree it is.

Aajonus: It isn’t working very well because they have so many limitations about it. If we were completely healthy and we weren’t enzyme deficient, Instincto Therapy would be the absolute because we wouldn’t need anything unless it actually appealed to us, but there are so many things that are absent. There are combinations that are needed. Instincto Therapy works if you are already in perfect health.

I don’t think anything is just a mental craving. There is no such thing, no such thing at all. That’s a psychologist’s point of view, or someone’s point of view who wants to manipulate that person for having that craving. I will always go with the craving.

— So you think it’s always the body.

Aajonus: Always, right.

— But then you have to interpret what it is that it is really telling you.

Aajonus: Yes. I have to translate it.

— But, of course, when you are dealing with things like nicotine addiction, your point in the book is that it’s a blood sugar problem.

Aajonus: So I don’t say, "Stop smoking." I just say, when you want a cigarette, have some honey or a date. Go do that first. They will get through a third of the cigarette and then throw it out. And they keep doing that and soon they are not smoking at all. So, they do it on their own. I am not telling them not to smoke. I am just telling them to do something before they do it.

— Did you finish what you were saying about fruit and vegetable juices?

Aajonus: You have to ask the individual what they are craving at the time. And it changes all the time. However, he can say, "Well, I love vegetables." I look at the person and I say, "Okay, is this a person who needs cleansing, who needs soothing, who needs alkalinity in the system?” And if he does, then I know that vegetable juices are mainly the thing for him.

But let’s say I have an obese person who is also irritable. Then I have to be very careful about what kinds of fruits and how much and with what, because some obese people that are irritable cannot digest the fats that soothe the nerve tissue and feed the myelin. And an acidic system will not only look for fat to burn, it will go into the nervous system to burn it, because it can’t utilize or digest or assimilate cholesterols properly and they therefore do not get in and soothe the nerve tissues.

So those acids (like Vitamin C supplements) go right in and burn the nerve tissue. So I need to break the fat down, but I also need to build up the coating on the nervous system so that those fruits don’t create this situation for people who have that problem. So again, the key is eating fats with any fruit, and I do not let them have any fruit without fat.

— Or fruit juice.

Aajonus: Yes. If they want to eat some fruit by itself, like eating an orange by itself, they can have three sections at a time every five minutes. Slow it down to that extent. Because I have them eating fats with everything else, there is fat in the blood to deal with it in small quantities at a time.

— Would that be true of something like pineapple?

Aajonus: The same with pineapple, absolutely. And a person who is too thin and very irritable should have lots of raw cream. Raw cream every day, lots of it, just to calm them down.

— With regard to vegetable juices and fruit juices, the common belief, you know, is that vegetable juices build and fruit juices detoxify, with citrus being the most rapid detoxifier. Do you agree with that?

Aajonus: It’s all bull. Vegetable juices cleanse and alkalinize. Fruit juices burn and alkalinize, even if they are citric. They are all cleansing. There is nothing building about vegetable juice or fruit juice.

— So, what is the difference? There is no basic line of demarcation between fruit as a category and vegetable as a category.

Aajonus: If I have somebody who is irritable and thin, vegetable juices mainly, because their system could not take all that fruit sugar going in to clean them out. It would irritate them, especially citric juices. If it’s strawberries with lots of silicone in it, and they have it with the fat, cream, avocado, that’s fine.

Pears, fine. But apples are not too good. Apples also stimulate the adrenals. You don’t want to give that to somebody who is irritable. Use the vegetable juices rather than the fruit juices. Since there is a lot more sugar in the fruit juices, it has a tendency to burn. Because it’s mainly out to burn fat – that is the principle.

The vegetable juices have soothing tonality to them. They don’t necessarily burn fats like the fruit does. That’s why the fruit is more cleansing in that way. Fruit tears things down by burning it up or cleaning it out. With vegetables, unless you are dealing with a lot of starchy vegetable matter like carrot juice with a high sugar content, you don’t have much burning going on. And vegetable juices go mainly to the brain and nervous system as fuel.

So the nature of one (fruit juice) is more astringent in its cleansing properties, and the other (vegetable juice) is much more soothing in its cleansing properties. However, let’s say you have trans-fatty acid "plastic" stored in your body. The nature of the vegetable juice is such that it can form a chemical reaction which dissolves that. And the chemical reaction of that can be just as damaging as the fruit.

— In terms of too much toxic dump?

Aajonus: Right. And that usually causes nauseousness. The chemicals are so stringent, so solvent that they can damage intestinal matter. So the body wants to dump it into the stomach, mix bile with it, and protect it as it goes through the system – or to bring it up by vomiting.

— So, if you had somebody that was again very thin and you were trying to put fat and muscle on them, you wouldn’t’ have them drink a lot of fruit juices.

Aajonus: No way. It takes a while to start to be able to work with these principles. I’ve given people the exercise of listening to the tapes over and over again, and in a very brief period, all of a sudden, the thoughts start coming to the right places at the right times, and it’s like they don’t have to struggle to remember it. All of a sudden the thought pops in at the right moment. Feeding themselves better is part of it. The diet itself gets things working. As I said in the book, I couldn’t read until I was twenty-two years old when I started drinking the carrot juice. My brain just never worked.

— Was it dyslexia?

Aajonus: I was not only dyslexic, I had a very short term memory of anything I would read. That is dyslexia – reading disorder, but the profundity of it was devastating to me. And boy, with that carrot juice, my brain worked, just like that. And other people are the same way.

— What is the carrot juice doing?

Aajonus: The carrot juice is a sugar that the nervous system uses quite nicely. Fruit juice is mainly a fuel burner for muscle tissue. A little bit of strawberries is good for the brain because of their silicone content, but most all fruits are there for muscle. And your vegetables are there for the nervous system and brain.

— As long as we are on this subject, would you like to say anything about the individual properties of specific fruits and vegetables? And also the combinations of fat and fruit juice that you recommend.

Aajonus: Well, that is an individual thing until I feel them out. I ask them what kinds of foods they like, even junk foods? No matter what it is. One girl wanted potato chips, just craved potato chips. I told her to get a very thin slicer and slice the potatoes and bake them in a Pyrex dish.

Peel them first, then bake them. Toast them in a broiler and get them crisp and have some butter with it. You can make a dip if you like, but if you just want the butter, if you want it like potato chips, then just have the butter, and when they come out just dip them in the butter.

— Raw butter, of course.

Aajonus: Yes, raw unsalted butter. And there you have a potato chip that’s all oily, and it’s crispy. You take each one very warm (not hot) and you dip it in the butter, and it’s oily at that point and still crispy, just as if it were fried. But if you take those and you dip them in the butter and you let them sit for a few minutes, then they are going to be soggy. I think she went through two days of eating nothing but those chips. And that did it. No more cravings after that. That’s what she needed. So I trust the body implicitly.

— For drying herbs, what would you say is the maximum temperature? If one wanted to dry fresh herbs and make use of them in various ways.

Aajonus: I would say about ninety-two degrees.

— And for tinctures, instead of alcohol?

Aajonus: Apple cider vinegar.

— Yes, but there are some roots and berries that can't be extracted unless you use vodka or Everclear pure grain alcohol, etc.

Aajonus: Use a little beet juice with the vinegar.

— You think that will accomplish the same thing that alcohol does?

Aajonus: The hydrochloric acid will dissolve it just like the alcohol will. And without damaging it at the same time. Distilled alcohol is very damaging to any tissue that comes into contact with it.

— So beet juice and apple cider vinegar.

Aajonus: Very little beet juice. How much vinegar do you usually use for a tincture?

— Usually enough to cover the volume of the raw herb by about an inch.

Aajonus: Let’s say you are using a cup of the vinegar. In that case use about four tablespoons of the beet juice. Now the beet juice is going to start fermenting pretty quickly because of the acidity from the apple cider vinegar, and it will produce a small amount of alcohol, but it won’t be a radical one because it won’t be distilled. If you are using bark or something like that, you might want to use more beet juice, higher proportion to vinegar.

— What about dehydrating food – for example making raw crackers in the dehydrator?

Aajonus: I think it’s better to cook them, to cook grains and starches. It’s pretty indigestible after drying because all of the enzymes go dormant. Not dormant, actually dead.

— Even at a low temperature.

Aajonus: Even at a low temperature. As soon as you crack it open, it oxidizes. If it dehydrates, it’s dead. It’s just like if your body dehydrated to death, would I be able to resuscitate you? Enzymes can’t be resuscitated either.

— So, it’s not just the heat, it’s the oxidation factor.

Aajonus: Right. And the rancidity factor. Different kinds of things. Coconut, for example, goes rancid very quickly. Seeds, raw.

— And what about drying fruit?

Aajonus: I used to have a philosophy where, again, if it’s dehydrated it’s not as good, it’s not as healthy. That’s still true. However, in the winter, I find that I crave dried fruits over fresh fruits. And I prefer dried fruits over fresh fruits some of the timeif I’m in a colder climate, I don’t even want to eat fresh fruits. If I’m in the snow, I want to eat dried fruits with butter or cream or something. So I just follow my instincts and it works for me. If I try to eat the fruits, I get cold and I don’t feel so well. As long as the fruit is not dried over 104 degrees.

To make a raw pie crust, you just take a lot of nuts, a few dates, some butter in there, and that’s it. (Recipe)

— And just make your pie crust and just eat it like that. Will it hang together?

Aajonus: Well, nuts do that. Especially with the dates. You just use a few dates. What I do is grind the nuts up first, not really ground to a powder, but I will grind them just a little bit in the food processor. I don’t put them in a blender, I put them in a food processor to grind it. And I put a couple of dates in it with a couple of tablespoons of the butter. And as that spins around, it clumps all together. I put some butter on the glass pie dish, press the mix into it and put it in the fridge, or put it in the freezer, actually, while I am making the fill. And with the butter in there it just hardens. You know how butter hardens. So it holds it together. I put the butter on the surface of the pie plate so the crust doesn’t stick, but when I process the nuts and the dates together, I also put a couple of tablespoons of butter in it. So if you use pecans, it tastes like butter pecan crust. It’s phenomenal.

The butter also seals it. Let’s say you are making a fruit pie, and of course there is more moisture in it and the pie crust usually ends up mushy. When the crust is cold like that with the butter in it, it becomes sealed. So it stays crunchy. I only keep the crust in the freezer as long as it takes me to make the fill. When I pull it out, I put my fill in and stick it in the refrigerator and let it solidify.

— Do you use sunflower seeds for the seeds and nuts?

Aajonus: No. They are too delicate. They go rancid too quickly.

— That fast?

Aajonus: Yes. I prefer almonds. I always use half almonds with something else, either walnuts or pecans.

— Do you ever use coconut for that?

Aajonus: No, not anymore. It doesn’t seem to digest well for me or for most people either.

— And what about just sprinkling coconut on things in general?

Aajonus: That’s okay. I also find that if you make the coconut cream and put that in the fill, it's okay.

— Is maple syrup heated?

Aajonus: Very, very high heat. Maple syrup is heated somewhere around three hundred and twenty degrees. I think the lowest is around two hundred and seventy?

— What about date sugar to sweeten with?

Aajonus: Date sugar – to get the dates to crystalize quickly, they steam them first because that dries them out, and then they usually dehydrate them in dehydrators. They are steamed and dehydrated. If I am going to make a pie, the dates are always my binder and sweetener. But I also use honey, just in the pie crust. I put one tablespoon of honey only in the crust to preserve it, to keep the nuts from becoming rancid. I will also put a tablespoon or two of honey in the fill.

But dates are what I use to sweeten it and bind it. Because it has all that pectin in it. And it has a gelatinous effect. I only put two or three dates in the crust, but I use ten to fifteen, and if they are small dates, even more, for the fill. I pit them and throw them in the blender with the fruit. And I will usually break it up into two portions because it gets pretty thick as you let it blend. And I let it blend a long time, a very long time, so all that date is pretty well dissolved.

I may go five minutes. And I will hold the blender, and I will be shaking it like this while it’s running, because then when I stick it in the refrigerator the pectin absorbs everything nice and evenly and it solidifies to where I can cut it without it running. How long you leave it in the fridge depends on how solid you want it. If it’s a cheesecake, I take it out in an hour. It’s always best overnight, taste wise. (Recipe)

— You’ve written these recipes down?

Aajonus: No, they are all in my head. I started ten times this week to sit down to sit down and start putting them down. And they all have to be experimented with because I do everything by instinct. So then if I put them down as a solid recipe, it’s got to be experimented with.

— Are there any health advantages of one kind of meat over another? Lamb, rabbit, wild game.

Aajonus: Wild game is always preferable.

— It’s tough though, isn’t it?

Aajonus: Well, I never met a tough bird.

— I was thinking deer or antelope.

Aajonus: Those are pretty tough. You could marinate them in pineapple if you wanted to break it down a little bit. Tough, but certainly a lot healthier. Buffalo is really nice. It has a cellular structure more like a human than any other.

— Can you get it?

Aajonus: Some places have it, but most often it’s frozen. But up where you are, I think you can get it non-frozen. Fresh game birds are wonderful. Quail is probably the most flavorful that I’ve ever had. And, of course, an animal freshly killed and warmed is an experience that goes beyond any drug I’ve ever had.

Like the rabbit, you know, and the quail that I’ve had. When it’s fresh, the energy and the life are potent – so different than even something that’s been dead for a while and refrigerated. It doesn’t have the same life in it. Again, what meat is good for an individual depends upon whether the person is very acidic or very alkaline.

Like I said in the book, people who are very thin and have a very acidic nature and are very irritable should not be eating cooked beef, ever. They should stay away from cooked protein, and they should be eating a lot of fish and a lot of raw poultry.

— Is it mostly by body type that you determine the difference between the three types?

Aajonus: Yes, you can just tell by looking at them.

— So people who are more emotional, thin, tend to have spiritual experiences, that kind of person would probably need more beef?

Aajonus: Usually a mix. Usually both is what they need. But if they are irritable people, or overanxious, then they need to eat more of the white meats.

— What about your type A personality – always rushing to get things done, and always taking on too much?

Aajonus: That would be white meats.

— Then who would fall into the red meat category as a primary emphasis?

Aajonus: Usually people who are very sallow in complexion. or white, overweight, if they are not irritable. Anybody who has lethargy, has no energy, depression.

— What about myself, for example?

Aajonus: You need both, but you need more foul. Raw chicken, raw turkey and fish. You do need beef for a while, because I can see your red blood cells aren’t very strong.

— From the eyes?

Aajonus: No, I can tell from the skin. You seem very jaundiced. Your liver is not in very good shape.

— Kind of yellowish complexion? That’s where these dark circles are coming from, too.

Aajonus: The liver – right. Well, also you have the puffiness under the eyes, which shows the kidney complication, but that could be from your fasting.

— I haven’t really been fasting.

Aajonus: Juice feasting.

— I really didn’t do it.

Aajonus: Good. I tried to talk you out of it. I was hoping that I would influence you. Good. Good. Good. Then you are just, you’ve got a pretty toxic liver, then, if you are this jaundiced. Have you ever had hepatitis?

— No. What I have been struggling with for about a year, and I’ve pretty much gotten it to the point now where the symptoms are very minimal is prostatitis. I stopped eating the green cooked foods. It’s been about ten days now and I haven’t had any cooked food, but you know the aching in the perineum and sometimes in the testicles, and all those sensitive spots are gone.

Aajonus: Good.

— So, then in terms of liver detox, just put the emphasis on...

Aajonus: ... nurturing and soothing. Cream, butter, meat. Build your body up. You are constantly detoxing it without building it.

— I don’t fast very often at all.

Aajonus: Yes, but if you are eating cooked foods you are not giving yourself soothing nutrients.

— Do you ever in a social circumstance or at any time, just let it go?

Aajonus: Never.

— You don’t. Your body can’t handle it?

Aajonus: No. It’s just that when I did do that – I think the last time I did that was in about 1977 – I experience 48 hours of less energy and not being so positive. When I eat cooked foods I have a tendency to be negative.

— So what happens when you get invited to dinner? What do you do?

Aajonus: I tell them that if you are going to have steak, don’t cook mine. Raw. Or salad. Or I’ll take food with me.

— So you will eat the non-natural stuff that they are serving if they are serving regular super market beef?

Aajonus: Yes. I will eat it but just occasionally. Most of the time they give me raw fish. Most people can handle sushi so they will give me fish to eat. I love that. I love that sushi became popular. It made things so much easier, even with the raw meat, because it opened it up for the raw beef too.

— But you don’t eat the rice?

Aajonus: I don’t. No. Other people, I recommend they do.

— What do you do at a sushi bar?

Aajonus: I just get sashimi. Sashimi means just the raw fish.

— And what about seaweed?

Aajonus: I don’t eat the seaweed. They grind that turnip or jicama or something like that. So I just eat the raw stuff. But other people, I have them eat the rice.

— What about seaweed in general? We’ve been eating a lot of seaweed in salads.

Aajonus: Well, seaweed is very difficult to digest. Again, it’s a cellulose molecule, and it’s even more complex than earth grown vegetables because it has to be able to stand up to salt water, and our digestive juices aren’t really going to break it down. The closest we can get to even breaking down any of it is algae. And that can cause a very imbalanced system because of the way they dehydrate it.

— So you are not in favor of chlorella and spirulina etc.?

Aajonus: No, I found it very difficult on the liver and on people’s systems. Eat the fish that eat the seaweeds and algae.

— And so instead of trying to get your minerals out of seaweed get it out of raw oysters?

Aajonus: That’s it. And scallops. Clams, raw clams. Any of the raw fishes.

— Do you feel it’s necessary to have any kind of mineral supplement? You know all these liquid minerals out of Utah, etc.

Aajonus: You will get a toxic effect if you are on it for more than five months.

— How is it toxic?

Aajonus: It starts drying out the system because it needs fats to work with it, and then you are moving toward cancer or cirrhosis of the tissues. As the minerals start to build up they start pulling out fats, and water, too.

So you have something that is constantly leaching water, leaching fat, leaching everything, and your body dehydrates and develops cirrhosis and then cancer. There are some people who crave seaweed and I tell them to have it when they go have sushi. I know they are not going to digest much of it, so I say go ahead and eat it.

— How long will the honey/butter mix keep outside of the fridge. You don’t refrigerate that, do you?

Aajonus: You can.

— Doesn’t it get really hard?

Aajonus: Some people like that fudgy, hard texture. I have some people that powder some walnuts or some pecans and then blend that in with the honey and butter and then refrigerate that, and maybe put a couple of drops of vanilla extract in it and maybe some raw carob powder. And when it’s hard, it’s really delicious – it’s like fudge.

— But if you want to have it out of the fridge for easy spreading, will it last?

Aajonus: Well, when I went back-packing in Hawaii, I was there for ten days. So I took this large Lexan jar, which is hard plastic that doesn’t leach. And I mixed two-thirds butter with one-third honey, and I actually blended it. I did not heat the honey and melt it, because it becomes less stable once you do that. I just let it get to room temperature. Once it got real soft I would blend it and pour it into the big jar, so it would be more stable. On about the 8th day it started fermenting a bit, but I still continued to eat it and it was fine. (Recipe)

— So the honey will preserve whatever is in combination with it?

Aajonus: Pretty much, yes.


— Do you use nut butters or recommend making them in the Champion – like almond butter, for example.

Aajonus: It heats up too fast. So, if you make it, you’ve got to only use a small amount at a time, a few ounces before the machine heats up, because it heats up very quickly with nuts.

What I usually do is take the nuts, put them in a small canning jar, blend them to a powder and then add butter to it. Butter and honey. I will melt the butter down with the nuts in it with some honey, and then blend it all together and it’s delicious. (Recipe)

— Do you soak the nuts first?

Aajonus: No.

— No soaking of nuts is really necessary.

Aajonus: Nuts have an enzyme which prevents digestion. They naturally have that. But that bond is easily dissected in our digestive tracts. However, when you germinate it, it makes the cellulose covering harder for us to break down, so we digest less.

— Then why does everyone say that soaked nuts and seeds are easier to digest then?

Aajonus: Fallacy. It’s a theory that doesn’t work in practice. Now if you milk it or juice it, then it’s fine.

— Did you discover this through your own experience?

Aajonus: Yes. The theory comes from the fact that when it’s dry, it’s harder to digest. When it’s saturated and full, it becomes easily penetrable. However, the cellulose composition of that fluid makes it difficult for us to digest whereas when it’s in its dry form our hydrochloric acid penetrates it very easily and dissolves it.

— How often do you eat nuts and seeds?

Aajonus: Very rarely. I use pecans more often than anything else. But when I make a pie or anything, I use equal amounts of almonds to either walnuts or pecans. During the winter and early spring, I will eat a lot of pine nuts. I just desire them. Crave them.

— And seeds? Sesame seeds? Chia seeds?

Aajonus: No. They are very difficult. Chia seeds, you know what they will do is take a lot of your enzymes.

— Flax too?

Aajonus: Flax is the same.

— Can people be healed on this diet without the meat?

Aajonus: Yes. You can take them so far. But you can’t heal them completely, unless they are an individual who doesn’t need meat. And there are very few of those. The meats help to regenerate cells, to rebuild the systems. It’s like a baby growing – if you don’t feed a child proteins, it just will not develop right. It will be very small with weak bones, etc.

— But don't beans and rice provides all the amino acids?

Aajonus: That’s a theory. They can analyze it. They find this protein here and this protein there and then they compare it to what is in meat, and they say that if you combine these two then you have it. But it didn’t work for Owanza, and it hasn’t worked for any other vegetarian I’ve seen. I just had another vegetarian here today. Two weeks ago he started on the diet on the advice of another person. He read the book twice and came for a consultation today. It certainly didn’t work for him.

You see meat is already so much like us. It’s an animal and we are an animal, so there is so little transition to make. All truly vegetarian animals have a longer digestive tract than we do. And they spend a lot more time, and they have a complex system to be able to break down vegetable matter and rebuild it into an animal cell. We don’t have that kind of ability. A few people do, but they are an exception, not the rule.

— Have you had anybody, then, that has gone through it without eating the meat? Or do they usually drop out?

Aajonus: I’ve handled a lot of people who would do the dairy and eggs, but not the meat. They do very well. They get healthier. But if they have a serious disease, they are not likely to rebuild and really get very strong. They get cleaner and, of course, they get more energy, more vitality. However, they are not regenerating cells.

— Not even from the vegetable juices?

Aajonus: No. The protein that’s in milk and cheese and dairy and eggs can be utilized to maintain cells that are already alive, cells that can utilize that protein. But they won't necessarily help regenerate, help the cells divide.

— Will people stay on the diet once they have started to heal themselves? Have the 236 cancer cases stayed on the diet?

Aajonus: I am counting 240 now with the loss of four because I count those two new ones. I knew they weren’t going to live. But I took them on anyway. And I’ve got a couple of more that are still living. But I don’t count them until they have been on it for five years. They have to live beyond five years before I count them. So I still have to wait four and a half years for some of these new ones.

— So 236 went five years on the diet?

Aajonus: Oh, yes. Or more. Some of them for 18 years.

— How many of those came to you in a terminal condition with just a short time to live?

Aajonus: Maybe about 12.

— And the others were just earlier cancer cases.

Aajonus: Yes. They were pretty early. And I’ve only accepted 2 that had medical treatment. One of those new ones, the one I told, "It’s going to be rough for you." She had a lot of radiation therapy. Another one that I mentioned in the book had chemotherapy.

— And from your perspective, why does that make it more difficult?

Aajonus: Because the radiation keeps cells from regenerating. It also creates more dead cells, because it burns them to death. So it creates cancer. Chemotherapy is a poison. It poisons the body. It kills more cells, makes the potential for cancer much more likely. When I start them detoxing, or even when I try to just rebuild them, they will go into an immediate detox. They will be vomiting and having difficulty so it’s difficult to take those people on. They are already panicked, and then they start vomiting and they think, "This diet’s bad for me." They don’t realize it’s not the diet that causes the vomiting. It’s what the diet is carrying out of their system. And it’s difficult so I don’t even take them anymore. I will not take anybody who has had chemotherapy.

— You’ve mentioned vomiting a number of times. What causes it?

Aajonus: It’s the whole system getting the fluids that it needs to start dissolving the tumors or the storages of dead cells. And like I said, it’s like a solvent effect. And it’s very deadly in the body, so the body will dump it into the stomach as the quickest passageway to get it out. Because if it goes through the intestines, and it does also go back into the intestinal area, it can cause all kinds of problems – constant diarrhea, burning in the intestines, peritonitis, colitis. You could end up burning the intestine completely. So it dumps into the stomach. The stomach is a very hard tissue. That’s why they take the stomachs out of animals and use them as water and wine bags.

— You would think that people on juice fasts would also vomit, and yet they tend not to. Because that’s pulling toxins out pretty quick.

Aajonus: It doesn’t really pull them out. And it rarely dissolves them. You need a protein and a fat together to make a proper "soap". Juice

fasting will detox maybe the liver, the glands, but it doesn’t really produce any detox of the tissues. Juice fasting produces a glandular detox, and that’s usually it.

— How did you discover the three blood types?

Aajonus: Well, just from observing them. Owanza kind of suggested it and then I followed through on experimenting with it.

— Is it actually blood chemistry that you are talking about, one more alkaline, one more acid, and one more neutral?

Aajonus: Yes, because if the blood is more acid it will synthesize red blood cells without help. And that individual should eat white meat – they need white cells. A highly acidic blood or system will not form white blood cells easily. I’ve had people who have been underactive and overweight, yet are highly emotional and anxious – it’s a mixing of types. And I find that I have to put some of them on fish first before I can transfer them to meat.

And I’ve seen people like this fellow who was just here – a hyperactive type – type A personality. And he should not be on red meat at all. But he’s been a vegetarian for fourteen years and his red blood cells are so low and so weak that he needs the red meat for about three to six months, and that’s what he is craving, and yet he is the type absolutely that shouldn’t go for it. His system would be naturally more acidic, but right now it’s very alkaline from having been a vegetarian.

— And I am probably in that category too, more acidic.

Aajonus: Yes. But right now you are just too alkaline.

— And Sally is more of a white complexion, light, fair, blond.

Aajonus: She is probably a red meat eater predominantly. With the combination type I have them eat both, unless they are very anxious then more fish and poultry. If a person is overweight and irritable, that’s both red and white. The irritability comes from high acid content in the body. When they look like they are white and pale, pallid and they should be a red meat eater and they are very anxious and irritable, I will start them on fish for a while until I get their system alkaline again the way it should be, and then I will put them on the red meat.

— So, in other words, the irritability and the anxiousness, that’s the high strung person, the type A, the over-achiever. Now I understand what you mean by irritable – somebody with a lot of energy who tends to have a short fuse.

Aajonus: Right. Now, you can have a person who is very thin and normally hyperactive but who is very lethargic. Like the fellow who came here today. He’s normally a white meat eater who needs to eat red meat, because his red blood cells are weak and alkaline.

— And then eventually you’d go back.

Aajonus: To eating just fish and poultry and maybe once a month or once every couple of months have red meat. Beef.

— Rice cakes are okay?

Aajonus: Yes.

— How about puffed millet cakes and that sort of thing?

Aajonus: No.

— Rice yes and millet no.

Aajonus: In rice the starch is very much like gluten. It will do what you want it to do. In millet it’s a very complex starch. It does not break apart easily. It doesn’t act like a sponge like you need it to, and it’s very difficult to digest. You can hardly get a goat – and you know how goats can eat anything – they won’t eat much millet. You put millet in their mix and they will eat it for a couple of days, and then they won’t touch it – even if it’s only five percent millet.

— But it’s supposed to be the easiest grain to digest, the only alkaline grain.

Aajonus: It’s theoretical. Again, somebody has analyzed it to look like this, and theoretically this is what they conclude but it’s all wrong in practice.

— Okay, and what about rye? Like rye bread?

Aajonus: Well, rye has a little bit more fat and protein in it. Less starch. And then you are getting into rancidity and coagulation.

— And we don’t want whole wheat for the same reason, because it includes the germ which contains oil.

Aajonus: Yes.

— So rice cakes without millet and without other grains added. Just straight rice. What about olives? To find an unsalted olive is almost impossible.

Aajonus: Yes. Also olives have strychnine in them, or they have a strychnine type enzyme which can make you very sick. They are cured in strychnine and then salt – a lot of them are cured that way.

If you can find black olives, when they’ve reached the black stage, they don’t have that enzyme in them anymore. So black olives are fine, but still they soak them in either salt water or a vinegar that is not good. But if you crave them once in a while have five or six of them. In some people they have supplied a nutrient that was needed. If you have five or six of them once a year, that will handle it.

— It’s usually the salt that is being craved anyway, I find. If it were the olive by itself, I wouldn’t be that attracted to it – if it weren’t salty. On another subject, you mentioned that Candida can be very difficult to resolve. Why is that?

Aajonus: Well, people are used to eating a lot of cooked starch, whether it’s vegetable or grain. A lot of potatoes in their lifetime, a lot of breads in their lifetime. So they’ve got all that starch. And what does Candida feed on? Sugars. So these are toxic sugars in their system.

The Candida is trying to break that stuff down and get rid of it. So if they have been heavy starch eaters, heavy pizza eaters, potatoes, any kind of eater like that, and they haven’t been able to break the sugars down well, then those sugars have a tendency to mold or rot or ferment in their system. You can smell somebody who is slightly fermenting. Under their skin they have a fermentation smell. Or it has a moldy smell to it. Those starches are breaking down.

Candida is just one of the elements that the body uses, one amongst other fungal, bacterial, or viral bodies that the system will use to try to break those sugars down. And if they continue on a bad diet, it just keeps storing. And you need the cooked starches combined with the raw fats in this diet to bind with those toxins that are forming in the blood, digestive tract, and glandular systems. And that puts some of those fermenting sugars into the skin. It’s a real difficult one, because you are constantly feeding it.

— And when you use the starches, you would never suggest that a person just eat the potato without the butter on it.

Aajonus: Absolutely not.

— One should always have either an oil or a butter on the cooled potato.

Aajonus: Correct.

— So that makes a difference, doesn’t it.

Aajonus: Yes. And the Candida clients that I’ve had are all well.

— How long does it take to get them to the point where their symptoms are abated enough that they feel they can function.?

Aajonus: Usually from nine months to a year and three months – where they won't have a recurrence. I’d say the about the shortest period of time for it to be completely gone from the body was about three years and eight months. The longest about six years and three months.

— And you don’t use any probiotic formulas to build the friendly bacteria? No supplements of any kind?

Aajonus: No. I’ve found that when you get into that, you are going to throw one thing one way and another thing the other way. No matter how many tests you do, there is always going to be some imbalance – unless you are extremely psychic.

— Speaking of tests, what if someone gets a stool test and it turns up something like Entamoeba Histolytica or other serious parasite?

Aajonus: I applaud and say, "Good, we are going to get you well faster than any other way." Because what they are going to do is eat whole sections. It’s like this – if you take a fluid remedy it's going to take a while to dissolve the toxic material and break it down. If you get an actual parasite in there, that parasite is going to eat the whole thing. Dozens of them. And they will do it in a hundredth of the time that it would take to dissolve the matter.

— And as the toxins diminish, they pass out of the system. But, of course, the existing theory is that the parasites are taking the nutrients that are needed for the system – needed for assimilation.

Aajonus: Well, the parasites don’t feed on the good nutrients. It takes the good nutrients to remove their fecal matter, their secretions out of the system, because when they eat toxins, of course, the matter that comes out of them is toxic. So we use our nutrients to deal with that toxicity and to pass it out so it doesn’t cause us damage.

— So they are feeding only on the toxic matter.

Aajonus: Yes. It’s the garbage. And they proliferate because there is a lot of that stuff available.

— You’ve seen Hulda Clark’s book is about the flukes causing cancer?

Aajonus: Oh yes. Another, "The Russians Are Coming, The Russians Are Coming."

— What about hepatitis C?

Aajonus: You know hepatitis is really not a difficult thing. I’ve never had a problem with that. It’s very easy. It’s just that you have to get organic liver. And you put the liver in a food processor with some ginger and some horseradish, or, if they don’t like the ginger, then just use the horseradish, or, if they don’t like the horseradish, just use the ginger, but it’s preferable to use both. (Recipe)

— About how much?

Aajonus: Just a very thin slice of fresh horseradish, and about half an inch of ginger.

— How much liver?

Aajonus: How much they can eat at one time depends upon the individual. I usually start them off on a third of a pound. You make it into a pate. It’s almost like a soup. Some people like to put honey in with it. But you do that three to four days a week. Once a day, three or four times a week, and let me tell you, it repairs them very quickly.

— What kind of time frame?

Aajonus: Within six months to a year.

— And, of course, they are on the diet.

Aajonus: Oh yes. Without the liver I have used raw fish and raw meats and so on in working with hepatitis and it has taken me up to a couple of years to get to a point where the liver is rebuilt and not affected. But with the liver I can do it in a lot less time. With the liver it speeds it up by almost two-thirds. But it has to be organic liver.

— When you say organic – what I’ve found so far is "natural", meaning no hormones, no antibiotics. Even Coleman meats, they are working with their farmers, their ranchers, but whether the cattle are being feed exclusively certified organic feed, the industry hasn’t evolved altogether to that point.

Aajonus: Right. I know.

— So, what do you mean by organic?

Aajonus: I mean, animals that are pretty watched. Coleman is good. It’s the closest to organic.

— What the health food stores are calling natural meat?

Aajonus: No, because Gooch is calling it natural meat and only in the last one hundred and forty days of the life does that animal not have antibiotics and hormones.

— Which one do they use?

Aajonus: Gooch’s used to use Coleman beef and now they’ve got their own.

— Gooch was bought by Whole Foods. Whole Foods I found out last week is using Oregon Country Beef. I called them and they told me it’s antibiotic free, hormone free.

Aajonus: No. That’s not the one Whole Foods is using. They are using one in Northern California and they are calling it their own ranch. Obviously they bought out the ranch.

— Wild Oats switched from Coleman to Manning now because it is cheaper. Do you know of any other good source besides Coleman?

Aajonus: No. That’s the only one.

— So you only eat Coleman meat?

Aajonus: For glandular tissue I will eat only Coleman beef. If I am in France, I will eat whatever muscle meat is available. If I am in Ohio, and I can’t get Coleman, I will eat right out of a market, at a Von’s or Ralph’s. But never the glands. That’s where the toxins are stored.

— Well, aren’t there some toxins in the muscle meat also?

Aajonus: Very little. And it’s usually collected in the fat and the fat will pass right through you as long as it’s raw. If it’s cooked, you’ve separated everything, you’ve broken the bonds.

— In other words, the fat is holding it in place.

Aajonus: Right. And once you cook it, everything becomes free, becomes a radical.

— So someone with hepatitis should only have Coleman liver really. That’s the only liver they should eat when they eat liver.

Aajonus: Yes, for beef liver. However, if they had chickens that were organic, they could get organic chicken livers.

— So, it’s not just beef liver we are talking about.

Aajonus: We are talking about any kind of liver.

— It’s the same recipe?

Aajonus: Right.

— Or lamb liver for that matter.

Aajonus: Absolutely.

— Okay, and what about the rest of the approach for the person with hepatitis?

Aajonus: I would address the hepatitis first, because I always look toward the liver and intestines first.

— And the rest of their diet apart from that liver once a day?

Aajonus: Okay, let’s say I am looking at an iris. And this whole area around the iris, this whole area is brown. I know that the intestinal tract is very acidic and doesn’t digest very well. You will see always a little circle around the pupil.

— Yeah. It looks like a halo, a light circle.

Aajonus: Right. In a lot of people, like the guy who was here today, it is brown. And this is a guy who was a vegetarian and has done all kinds of cleansing diets. So his tissues, almost all throughout the rest of the system, were light and clean, but the whole digestive area, the whole digestive system, the stomach, the intestines, both the colon and the small intestines were all brown. And he had blue eyes. But his liver was fine. No lesion there. No brown area and no toxic storage there. So, I could tell his liver was fine. His system is very alkaline, but his digestive tract isn’t. So here I’ve got a complex problem.

— How did you know that his system was alkaline?

Aajonus: He is over alkaline, because he’s jaundiced looking and yet he’s the type A. Normally, he would be very ruddy complected. So, his basic tissues and his blood are too alkaline right now, but his digestive tract is very acidic.

— When this is dark, that means acidic?

Aajonus: Right. And I want to put him on fish right away. But I can’t. So he is still going to have some problems. He is going to come down with some nasty flus. He is going to come down with some bad problems.

— Why can’t you put him on fish right away?

Aajonus: His blood is too weak. He has been a vegetarian for fourteen years. His whole system is too weak.

— And if you put him on fish what would happen?

Aajonus: He will get even weaker. He will just go to sleep all the time. He will just start falling asleep.

— Because of the alkalinity?

Aajonus: Because of the alkalinity and high mineral content. So, what I’ve done is, I say eat pineapple every day. That is going to help take care of this. Even though it’s an acid, it will help break down all of the stored acidity in the tissues. So I tell him to eat a slice of pineapple every day. But because he is so dry, I say you have to blend it with something. You cannot eat pineapple alone. It will blister your mouth. It will cause bleeding, bleeding tongue, stuff like that. So you have to blend it with raw cream if it’s available, raw eggs, raw milk, or with oil. You have to blend it with something. And you cannot just eat it. I don’t care if you are eating cheese or something, you just cannot eat it by itself. You have to blend it in something.

— Oh. Okay. He does. But other people could eat the cheese by itself.

Aajonus: It depends. If they are a very thin person like he is, and normally a very acidic system, and this is very acidic here, but it’s very alkaline. So he has forced his system to be the exact opposite of what it should be.

— When you say this you are talking about the blood?

Aajonus: I am talking about the blood, the muscle, the bone, the skin. Everything is alkaline until you get down to here, and then it’s toxically acidic.

— But, I always thought those things were supposed to be more alkaline, except the blood is supposed to be a little more acid, right? I’ve always been under the impression that most degenerative conditions, most pathological conditions are acidic conditions.

Aajonus: Okay, we are talking a difference between a healthy acidity and an unhealthy acidity. Whenever an area is brown, that’s a negative acidity.

— If they have brown eyes it’s hard to tell. Iridologists hate people with brown eyes. Now I understand.

Aajonus: Yeah. You better have a good light. But you can tell. You can see. A brown-eyed person if their eyes were clear and they were clean wouldn’t be dark brown. They would be an amber to a light brown. So if you look in a dark brown eye and you will see that this area is very deep brown if its acidic. And you will see deep, deep brown areas.

— And any blue-eyed or green-eyed person, is it always brown?

Aajonus: No, it could be green. If the person has green eyes and you see blue coming through somewhere, you know that their whole system has a negative acidity in it. My eyes were brown when I had the cancer, they were brown. Half of it was brown. When I was young it started off as blue, then it went yellow to green, then partially brown. So it was brown and hazel. And then when I started cleaning out, the brown left and I had green eyes and then when I started cleaning out more they turned blue again.

— Are you saying that there is no such thing as hazel eyes. Hazel eyes are basically a sign of disease or a problem?

Aajonus: Yes. A negative acidity throughout the tissues.

— So what are the basic eye colors when you are clean?

Aajonus: Amber and blue is all that I’ve seen. Sometimes it takes thirty years for them to completely clean out.

— So even a brown eyed person is possibly blue under that.

Aajonus: It’s possible. Amber or blue.

— So, when you look into somebody’s eyes then, you are looking for the colors, the misfit colors, the ones that don’t match what it seems to be.

Aajonus: Right. Well, that tells you what the true color is. The lightest color is probably what the true color is.

— Okay. And you were saying that any of that means negative acidity.

Aajonus: Right. Any brown or yellow. And in a hazel eye, you will see blue coming through in a few areas, and the rest of it they have negative acidity in the tissue. It’s like bile. It has settled actually in their tissue with toxins that it has bound with.

— From eating cooked food mostly.

Aajonus: Yes.

— Okay. So that’s the negative acidity? And then what would be the indicator – like this person you were just talking about — of an alkaline system?

Aajonus: You have to take each person in the context of what they are. He’s a type A individual. Normally he would have an acidic blood type and he would eat a lot of fish and a lot of chicken, a lot of white meats. Now the rest of his system is clean. There is no negative acidity stored anywhere except when it comes down to his intestine, maybe a little in his lacteal system, which is the system that pulls most of the fats out of the intestines and his intestines themselves. So those are the only ones that were affected. What that means, when there is a heavy acidic intestine, that means it doesn’t digest well.

— And how did he get a heavy acidic intestine if he was eating mostly vegetarian food? Most of it was cooked food I guess, a lot of it was cooked.

Aajonus: Cooked food, and it starts ketosis. His body has to pull out cells all the way from outside of his body and then digest them and make its own enzymes and synthesize its own amino acids and throw them back into the system. So basically the intestines are where most of the rotting is going on.

— Because he is not getting the amino acids from the natural raw state.

Aajonus: Right. So it eats itself. And looking at the density of fibers in an eye will tell you how much life is there. It starts fogging over and the lines get indefinite. You look in my eyes. See how definitive the lines are and the fibers in the eye.

— The lines radiating out from the center.

Aajonus: Yes. The more spokes there are, the more density there is, the more cellular life. When it starts fading out, that’s where dead cells exist.

— In these lines radiating from the center.

Aajonus: Right. And you will find that they, in his system, on the right side of his body fifty-seven percent of the cells were alive. Out of those, the health of those were only forty-two percent. On the left side of his body, he only had forty-two percent of his cells alive, but sixty-five percent health in those forty-two percent. The outer half of the circle of either eye applies to the same side of the body. The inner half of the circle of either eye applies to the opposite side of the body. Except in some people. A few people are born with a mutation where the whole eye applies to that same side of the body.

— So this is telling you about the left lung and this is telling you about the right lung.

Aajonus: This is telling you about the left side of the thyroid and this is telling you about the right side of the thyroid.

— Is this standard iridology?

Aajonus: No, not standard iridology. It’s what I discovered in my research. I studied it back in the mid-sixties and late seventies.

— But you are going with what you’ve found. And this is Jensen’s chart that you use.

Aajonus: I will find, let’s say, that the liver shows up right here at 7:45. I mark everything down in a time chart. But I will find in some people that the liver will be down here or up here at 8:00 o’clock. So you have to really take a look. So let’s say you see a lesion here or a brown spot.

— What is the difference between a brown spot and a lesion?

Aajonus: A lesion is an area where there is no coloring and it’s flat and dark.

— Black?

Aajonus: It doesn’t have to be black. It can just be a dull blue, dark blue, a dull gray blue. It’s just a flat area with no fibers going through it. A brown spot without fibers means that probably the person has cirrhosis of the liver.


Aajonus: One client of mine corresponded to 8:00 rather than 7:45.

— Okay, so that would be the section for hands or arms.

Aajonus: Right. And she had no problem with her hands or arms, yet she’s got tremendous liver problems, pain there, everything. So you have to adjust. This is just a kind of approximation. So, what you do is see where the things are and you see where those lesions and those problems fall and you have to ask questions so you know where the symptoms lie. So the symptoms have to match. What I do is when I see a spot like that and I can see there is no problem with the hands or arms I will say, "Do you have pain in this area right in here? Do you have discomfort there say after you eat cooked fats or something like that?" It’s her liver. Right away you know it’s the liver. It’s not the hand or the arm. So you just go through. And let’s say I’ll have a lesion or brown spot or a toxic mineral, chemical or drug deposit somewhere along the spine. Let’s say it falls right in here. I will say, do you have pain in your back about right here. And if they say no, it’s higher or lower, I will know that it’s a little off this chart, because nobody seems to be right on the money, or very few seem to be right on the money.

— Does that brown spot or lesion have to be right on this line, or can it be over here?

Aajonus: No, it can be anywhere across here.

— Any one of these pie slices.

Aajonus: Yes. Now, this is the lymph system. This is the skin. This is the lymph system. This is the bone.

— That whole gray band.

Aajonus: To me it’s never that thick. In most of my experience it’s never been that thick. This is muscle tissue.

— Does it say that on here somewhere?

Aajonus: No. I think he has it in his book. However, a gland can run all the way across the whole thing. To me this is the blood and he has the blood and the circulatory system out here. I find that that’s the lymph. I find the blood is close to the intestines.

— So, you don’t see this as being the circulatory system there. It’s really in here.

Aajonus: Well, this is the circulatory system, but the lymphatic circulatory system, not the blood. I find that the blood is here.

— And we are talking about close to the center just outside the...

Aajonus: ... intestinal area. Because this is the colon and this is the small intestine.

— Okay, so it’s the third ring out. All right.

Aajonus: The bone is here and then the muscle is here.

— So when we say the bone we are starting with the outer ring. The thin gray ring is skin, and then the next one in is the lymph, and then the next band would be the bone, and then next one in from that would be the muscle, the white band here on this chart. And then what about this one?

Aajonus: That’s the blood.

— Oh. Okay, this gray one, that’s the blood.

Aajonus: And the bronchials and the blood tie in very close together.

— So how do these things tell you something about the blood? How do you combine that information with the fact that there’s all these other organs that are crossing it?

Aajonus: Well, it tells us the circulatory system into the organ is bad. Or the muscular system of the organ is bad. The actual basic structure of the organ is bad. The lymph connection to that gland is bad. There is usually not too much lymphatic connection to the glands, but if I find some real dark tissue here near a gland right in the glandular area, which is very rare, they may have — you know like some people have red feet and red hands, you have a deformity. And deformities show up. So don’t let them confuse you. Just look at them as a rarity. And they do exist. And there are deformities inside as well as outside.

— Getting back to the person who is alkaline. You could see that from this?

Aajonus: No. When I look at this, I don’t consider that. But once I know what they are supposed to be eating, then I look here and I say, okay, he needs to eat fish and chicken and lots of fowl. White meats. Whatever it might be. Even lamb. That’s a lighter red meat and it isn’t as acidic as beef. But I see that his intestinal tract has a collection of toxic acidity throughout it. And it’s even bleeding. You will see that the brown bleeds into the blood. So, I say, I’ve got to correct that. He is not digesting well. If I have him eating fish and chicken, his blood is going to falter. His whole system is just not going to do well. So I need to strengthen the blood first, because I can see he’s jaundiced. He’s pallid and jaundiced.

— I don’t understand why eating the fish wouldn’t strengthen the blood.

Aajonus: Because it strengthens white blood cells, not red blood cells.

— Okay, so he has to have meat.

Aajonus: Red meat for from three to six months.

— So fish and poultry are primarily white blood cell augmentation. And it doesn’t do anything for the red blood cells?

Aajonus: Yes, a little, but it won’t do what it needs to do for some people. I think if we were healthy people we could take anything and transmute it into anything. But we are such a weak civilization. We are exposed to so much pollution that our bodies have to match like with like. It makes it easier, simpler, the progress. Now, I’ve taken people with a system like him, put them on the fish and the chicken, and, yes, they do improve, but it takes a lot longer.

— Okay, so the red cell in this case is going to give him greater oxygenation of the body, more iron.

Aajonus: Yes. Strengthen his system basically all over, help start his muscle cells developing again, because he’s got almost no muscle on his legs. It’s just skin and bone, and he’s very white. There is a little ruddiness in there but he’s too white. And this is somebody who should be virulent red.

— So I should be more red too.

Aajonus: Oh yes. Definitely.

— Your face has a reddish cast.

Aajonus: Right.

— So you are that type too.

Aajonus: No. I’m both.

— You’re mixed.

Aajonus: Yes. I have to eat both. If I eat just beef for a long time, I get very ill. I start getting nauseous. So I have to eat them both. And if I eat chicken or fish too much, it takes me the other way. I will sleep all the time. So I have to have both on a regular basis.

— I feel that I need both, but I don’t know if that’s true. How do you know? How would I know?

Aajonus: Well, I think basically you are more a white meat eater. You are more the type A, the white meat eater. However, you’ve been a vegetarian so long that you need the red meat.

— But how would you know if somebody were like you? The mix? What is it that tells you that?

Aajonus: They have thick muscles. And I have thick legs.

— You’ve always had that.

Aajonus: Yes. Well, not always. When I was living outdoors, I got down to about one hundred twenty-eight pounds. And after I fasted for forty days, I was down to ninety-two pounds.

— What are some of the other characteristics of the "mix" type?

Aajonus: Thick muscles, more pallid complexion. The darker skinned you are, usually the more acidic you are, the whiter meat you need. So my ruddiness is a light ruddiness. Yours would be more of a tanned ruddiness, or darker ruddiness.

— Anything more?

Aajonus: No. It’s usually that they are paler in their ruddiness.

— But not white. When you start to get very pale, the light, fair- skinned, light haired people, then you are talking about red meat again.

Aajonus: Red meat entirely just about. And some people will vacillate, as they improve. Let’s say they start completely white. You put them on red meat for a year or two years and all of a sudden they start tanning a little bit, and they take the sun well, and then you’ve got to give them both red and white meats. They have to make the transformation.

— So, again, that’s your third type.

Aajonus: Right. They transform into the third type.

— I’ve always been very thick in the legs and up here. I have sort of a natural muscle tone.

Aajonus: But, if you’ve been a vegetarian for a long time, with your dark skin, it shows that you are much more a white meat eater.

— Getting back to your client, in his case, then, the stomach and the digestive area was acidic and the system was alkaline.

Aajonus: It was a negative acidity.

— It’s supposed to be acidic.

Aajonus: Right. But not negatively acidic. And there’s a certain very delicate balance, acid-alkaline balance in the digestive tract, and all you have to do is throw it off a few points and you won’t digest anything. In a system like that you just don’t digest much unless anything you put in is completely raw and it’s almost self-digestive, the body can break it down very easily without having to leach enzymes. The person with that kind of a digestive tract can barely leach any more from its own system. And you can see he’s done so much leaching for so long, only fifty percent of his body is alive, and that part is only fifty percent healthy.

— And that’s from leaching enzymes from all over the body to use for the digestive process.

Aajonus: Right. And not having meat. He’s using his own cells to go in and dissolve ... It’s like his body has become cannibalized. Like a lot of vegetarians, their bodies become cannibalistic. They start eating their own cells, breaking them down and reusing them to maintain.

— And a vegetarian that’s eating all raw is doing less of that...

Aajonus: Less of it, yes.

— But because they don’t have a sufficient amount of fat...

Aajonus: They are still going to be eating up their own cells. They will still go into ketosis.

— Because the fat being the missing link...

Aajonus: Will stabilize the cell. If a cell is weak, it gets worn down easily. If a cell has a lot of fat and has stability, it’s not so weak.

— But if you eat raw food, aren’t thereenough enzymes in the raw food so that you are not leaching those enzymes from the rest of the body? That’s how I’ve been thinking all this time.

Aajonus: But if you are on raw food without the fat and without the animal protein your body is just handling mainly sugars. So what happens?

— Well, I always assumed there was enough protein in vegetables and tofu and foods like that.

Aajonus: Yes. But they are cooked.

— Right. You would have to have raw protein.

Aajonus: A raw fruitarian or vegetarian is often very hyper-active, even scatter-brained – they are all over the place. The fruits go in and mainly burn fats as fuel, and they change into enzymes. Every fruit has more enzymes than are necessary to digest that fruit. They are in excess for a human body, for an animal body. So what happens is the excess sugar looks for fat to burn for fuel or looks to cleanse.

— The excess enzymes look for fat to burn.

Aajonus: Right. And the sugars. The enzymes and the sugars look to react with something else. There is always something that they seek

out to bind with and to integrate with. So they are going to seek out the fat stored in your body, the protein stored in your body, to react with and to cleanse. So what happens is you get a hyper-active person who is not feeding his muscles the fats that they need so he becomes real scatter-brained. The brain in not operating properly.

— If you are taking the fat in along with all the raw fruits and vegetable, then...

Aajonus: The fruits will have something to act upon. It can either make "soaps" or it can make fuel.

— Make what?

Aajonus: Soaps. To cleanse. The body makes soaps. It’s part of the cleansing process. It makes solvents. Like we make our soaps out of lard – it used to be out of lard. Now it’s petroleum. All fats are cleansing. You can make them into a cleansing product.

— You can take vegetable oil and remove sticky stuff from surfaces.

Aajonus: Yes, because it’s a cleanser. Or you can burn it as a fuel. Fat is the most malleable substance that we eat, and it’s the most important. In our society you need the protein and the fats, like Pottenger says. But he goes into cooking. It just doesn’t make any sense. You see in the last two chapters in his book, the last section, he is talking about cooking this and that, and you say, wait a minute. He did all of the raw food studies, and he’s talking about low heat cooking. It doesn’t make sense.

— Well, maybe he thinks low heat is still quasi-raw.

Aajonus: But he knows that even pasteurization, which is one hundred and seventy degrees, is a problem. And he’s talking about cooking something, lightly boiling it. I don’t know how that translates. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. But he comes through with that conclusion – or the people who took over, his children or ancestors have changed it. Because I can tell that some of it is re-written. So I don’t know if they’ve gone in and put their own theories and evaluations into it.

— Before you stabilized on this diet, you were having a certain amount of mental difficulty, weren’t you? You weren’t able to concentrate or even read.

Aajonus: That was before I ate anything raw really, except apples and salad.

— And it was hard to focus your attention?

Aajonus: Yes. I had a memory for figures and that was it. High grades in school.

— You seem very concentrated now. The way your thought process works seems very concentrated.

Aajonus: It can follow a long process. I can go off on a tangent and come right back to the point.

— And I can do that too, but what happens with me is I get too much input. I am generating too many things at the same time, and so I start throwing... juggling too many balls.

Aajonus: The inability to concentrate or follow a train of thought or the tendency to be scattered in thought happens a lot with vegetarians. It can be too much sugar in the blood, too much fruit sugars in the blood, which stimulates adrenaline. If the brain tries to use it, it’s too radical. Sugar. Let’s say one eats too much carrot juice, which has a lot of starch sugar, and that goes right to the brain. The brain uses that and then one can get dispersed. Because that will start firing too many places at once. Too many things going on.

Let me re-phrase it. If you have carrot juice and it’s released too fast, without diluting it with some kind of fat — cheese, cream or something, or other juices — it will go to the brain all at once and it will be firing too many synapses at the same time, and it’s difficult to follow a train of thought and then come back to it, or diverge from it. It would be constant diversion, because the brain needs to burn it up, because it can cause damage, it can turn into a substance that gets sticky and then that part of the brain gets clogged. So it needs to burn it, to react with it.

— What gets sticky?

Aajonus: The starch, the sugar starch, if it’s not utilized right away.

— [Talks about the vital, solid, and peculiar character types].

Aajonus: On a physiological level and in terms of dietary patterns, I think of them in five categories. You have the two that you call the vital and the peculiar. They are both hormonally active, on a physical level, hormonally active. With the peculiar, usually the pancreas is over-active or under-active. It’s either over-active or under-active. Sometimes the sex gland will be a part of that, too.

— The ovaries?

Aajonus: And the thyroid is sometimes overactive.

In the vital type.

— What about under-active thyroid.

Aajonus: Yes. It can be either way. This usually involves the adrenal glands in conjunction with the sex glands.

— The vital?

Aajonus: Right, the vital. Now the third one, the solid, the lost soul. That is the one that has no instinct. That guy is really lost. That’s why the society is run by the solid. And that’s why we are so fucked up.

— Right. The scientists, the technicians, the politicians.

Aajonus: The lawyers and the doctors. They are just fucking up the whole planet. They’ve got control of it. Now their hormones are also over-active, but it’s usually the pineal and pituitary. Those glands are usually more active.

— More active than the other glands?

Aajonus: Right.

— And you take that into account with the diet?

Aajonus: Oh, yes, definitely. Now if I’ve got somebody who is too theoretical and too intellectual and bound there and very strict and rigid, then I will say, "Okay, buddy, I am going to get some of your sugar going here, and I am going to get some of that muscular activity going and some of the glandular activity going." So I will give him foods that will stimulate those glands – or herbs that will stimulate them.

Let’s say I want to stimulate the pancreas. I want to get that person a little bit more rooted emotionally, open up their psychic channels, because that link is a very emotional link. That I found out in my death experience. If you don’t have that emotional link, you don’t have that connection, right to the heart, to that feeling of love or anything. You just have no feeling. You are just operating like Dr. Spock. So things like jerusalem artichoke, which has natural inulin in it, so the insulin gets into effect there and plays out. Any food that has inulin in it, natural inulin I will give them. Some of the yams contain it. So put it in their juice. Juice the yam, juice the jerusalem artichokes. If you juice them it’s a lot more effective for somebody who is "lost" than eating them whole.

— How much?

Aajonus: I don’t like to plunge them into it. Let them grow into it – mix it with carrot and other things? Mix it with the other juices. And it depends upon the individual. Let’s say I have a fascist that’s plugged in only up here and he’s got to be completely right. I will give that person a lot more of the yams, maybe have potato juice once a week. I will have him put it in the juice, have him take yams three or four times a week with his juice. When jerusalem artichokes are available I have him have two or three about this big.

— And when you say fascist, you are talking about the solid – in the mind.

Aajonus: Fascist from here. Not like Hitler, who was a vegetarian and was completely sugared out. All of his glands were overactive everywhere, his mental, his physical and his emotional glands were just all over-balanced. He used to put sugar in his wine, two heaping tablespoons of sugar in his wine. And he used to put sugar on top of cake with icing on it! You talk about a poor pancreas.

— You just said something interesting. Physical, emotional, and mental glands – the mental ones being the pituitary and the pineal. And the physical ones would be...?

Aajonus: They physical are usually the thyroid and adrenals but the two can transfer into something else. The thyroid can be either the physical or the emotional, because it addresses all the other glands.

But if it is over-active physically it is mainly the adrenal glands and the sex glands – testicles and ovaries. The emotional type would be the pancreas and sex glands, where those two energies were connected into an emotional body.

— Let's talk about reading the bodily signs to determine some of these things.

Aajonus: Well. I look at the elbows and the knees to see how dry they are – to see if they are very dry and lumpy with thickened skin. This tells me that the red blood cells are very low. The person is not manufacturing red blood cells very well.

— And why does that tell you this?

Aajonus: Because you start building dead cells into the skin and it just keeps adding on.

— And that happens at the knees and the elbows?

Aajonus: Knees and the elbows because the bone marrow produces red blood cells. So your knees, your hip joint, your femur joint and your elbows and shoulders produce the most red blood cells. So I look to the knees and the elbows — flakey, dry, thick skin, all this tissue that builds up there.

— Why does that happen in the areas where the red blood cells are made?

Aajonus: Because that’s such an important area. Because the blood transports oxygen and a lot of nutrients throughout the system to the glandular system mainly and the lungs. The lungs are a gland, basically, not an endocrine gland.

— But why does this dry up then if there are not enough red blood cells being produced in that area?

Aajonus: Well, it shows that there is not enough lubrication. It shows me how dry the entire system is. Everybody is cirrhosed to an extent because they haven’t been eating good fats.

— Deteriorating.

Aajonus: Right. I need to know to what extent.

— So this is dryness from lack of fat. And how does that relate to red blood cells?

Aajonus: What you do is straighten out the leg. When you bend it, I can’t tell as much. If the elbows are worse than the knees it shows that the weakness would be in the arms compared to the legs. So I can tell that the upper body has a tendency to hold the toxins more than the lower part. Of course, that usually goes along with people who are physically more active. But sometimes I will find somebody who is so dry everywhere, and they have no muscle tissue, as they start really deteriorating. And then the muscle becomes so hard that it doesn’t relax. Now, I haven’t worked out in seventeen years. I don’t do anything. I will go roller skating twice a month. That’s it. Now feel the muscle when it’s relaxed. It’s soft.

— It’s got body to it though.

Aajonus: But see most people who build themselves up like your body builders, putting these fake proteins in them. And everything is solid. It’s solid all the time. That’s why they are so stiff. But see, this is flexible. And then I can pump it up and it’s, very hard.

— And you never worked out your forearms. Ever?

Aajonus: No. It’s been seventeen years.

— But, did you before that?

Aajonus: Yes. But that was those two hundred push-ups a day. But if I didn’t work out when I wasn’t eating the raw meats, if I didn’t work out for six months, it was all gone, my muscle was all gone. It stays that way just from eating the raw meats.

I have one client, Tony Plan. He was in Gregory Hobblett’s last film, you know, Primal Fear. He is the Cuban in it who plays a Latin and he’s is the one that Richard Gere asks to testify in court. Short little guy. Anyway, he was my client for fifteen years. He had the body of a teenager. He was thirty. I was about thirty-five when I met him, I guess, and he was about twenty-five, and he had an adolescent body. He was a boy who never grew into a man. He stayed an adolescent. And I had him as a client. I had him on the raw chicken and the raw fish, but never raw beef. He developed somewhat. And then when I started eating raw beef, after I did it for a while, I suggested that other people give it a try too. Within about ten or eleven months of eating the beef, all of a sudden then his body just developed out. And he is really...

— He didn’t get fat.

Aajonus: No. No. And he’s an A type, which is against that. But he had done so much cocaine and other drugs that he had damaged his red blood cells and until he got the red meat he was never able to re- build his blood to be able to rebuild his muscular system. So I am telling you these little stories because every person is different. I cannot give you a formula. There is no such thing as a formula. So you just have to let your intuition take you.

You have to trust the things that come to your mind. I don’t want you to poo poo them because you’ve got a mind that is over-active. At any time. Anything that comes to your mind about an individual, take it into consideration first. Because I can tell, we have a lot based there, once you allow that to happen. I find that all of those initial realizations are important. All the other stuff analytically comes along with it. But I will take a person and as soon as I see them, I am already reading them, on a different level

But I don’t conclude it. I never conclude. I never come down with some kind of a formula. Because then you’ve stopped your whole process of taking them in. Because they change every moment and so do you. And that’s what growth is. That’s what changing on the diet is. It’s always different. Everybody. I’m so amazed at my clients. They just keep evolving and growing.


Aajonus: So just to start, what the practice is, when you meet somebody first don’t just start analyzing the physiological immediately. Take them in. See where they are.

— Do you have them answer written questions of any kind?

Aajonus: No, because it will all be an analytical process. It will take up a lot of time, and it won’t give me what I perceive. I know right away when I look at somebody how much intellectually based they are, how much physiologically based, and how much emotionally based. I can usually tell that within half a minute. And then what I do is I allow myself to get to exactly the same level because the more they identify with me the more I can pick up on everything that they are not telling me — on a psychic level. I can see things. I can see blocks that are having expression out of the mental and ideological and where it’s based in the body. And I know that all of that is going to clean out.

I used to panic. I would say, "Oh, I’ve got to fix this to fix that." I was always taught that everything comes from the mind. And experience has taught me that that is not true. It happens together. Nothing manifests without emotion. It’s like the female principle. And the female principle exists alongside the mind. The mind didn’t come first. It’s like they happen together. And the masters always gave me that, so I thought I had to fix this before I could fix that. Those are also people who say anger creates cancer and all this sort of thing. That’s not true. I saw some of the sweetest people who died of cancer. And I saw some of the ugliest people in the world who do not have a lick of cancer. They don’t have any diseases at all, except maybe headaches. Migraines. So those kinds of medical conclusions, I say you have got to stay away from those.

What I do is say, "That’s probably a good part of it, but it’s not the cause." I give them permission to be right but without getting locked into something, and then beating themselves up and hurting themselves and trying to change into something that they are not. So I get them to relax more, so they are not emotionally at odds with their body and with their own psyche and their own emotional being. I try to remove the guilt. It’s all part of the healing process. Because then the nutrients they eat are not burned up in emotional tension and stress.

The guilt is released by giving them permission, that they are right, other things are right too. And your perspective may not be right for you, although it is a right perspective. So say, "Hey, that idea was given to me, and I embraced it, but maybe that is not my truth." And that’s what they start saying. Then they are all of a sudden relaxed and open to watch what happens. And while they are opened, they are not stressing.

— So, what are they feeling guilty about, that they have created their illness through wrongful living.

Aajonus: Right. Wrongful living, wrongful thinking. Something they did in a past life.

— So, how do you deal with the more mundane areas, like they just can’t quite smoking. They want to and they feel guilty about it but they just haven’t been able to make that leap. You let them keep smoking and you gradually...

Aajonus: I tell them what to eat. Every time they want a cigarette, I tell them what to eat.

— The honey and butter.

Aajonus: Right. Or just have the honey. Honey and butter is better. I just say, "It’s okay for you to smoke." It is something you want to stop, but that’s not your intent.

— Nurture the body until it drops that particular thing.

Aajonus: Exactly. Your job is this: every time you have the craving have the honey/butter before you have the cigarette. Just incorporate this. And the other will be eliminated.

— So you’ve got to feel the person physically, emotionally, and so on.

Aajonus: Right. You need to give them validity. Permission. And not to be guilt stricken. Everybody that comes is going to have guilt. Because they are already insecure in their body and our society has taught us to blame. Something is always to blame. That’s our education. So you need to find out their viewpoint and then defuse it by giving them permission and saying they are fine. "You are not a bad person. You’ve got an adrenal gland that is causing adrenaline to go in, and irritate your nervous system, because if it can’t find the fat in your blood, it’s going to eat on the myelin." The myelin is ninety percent fat basically. It protects the whole nervous system. Now if your adrenalin is causing lesions in your myelin, that myelin is going to get thinner and thinner and then you are going to overload with sensory energy. So what happens, you get irritable, anxious, can’t do anything. You’ve got hypersensitivity going.

— Because as it’s feeding on the myelin, it’s stimulating those nerves, is that what you mean?

Aajonus: Not only that, but as the myelin gets thinner, that much more electro-magnetic energy comes in through the blood, outside, anywhere, and overloads because the myelin is a buffer.

— And the hormone is eating on the myelin because it’s in excess and is looking for fat to bind with?

Aajonus: It’s not necessarily excess. It’s always excess if your blood fat level is low. But if your blood fat level is fine, it may not be an excess. There are those people who have normal amounts of fats in their blood, but have a tremendous over-production of adrenalin. Okay, so it can be excess for two different reasons. The adrenaline is looking for fat to burn, to utilize, and if the adrenaline has gone to the muscles and there is no fat available in the muscles, then it goes to the nervous system.

— So, if you have sufficient fat and you are involved in a flight or fight response the adrenalin will just basically do its job and not harm the myelin?

Aajonus: Like in most animals, you’ll flee. If there’s not enough blood fat in there, you will make wrong choices. And you will go to extremes. And you might find yourself in a physical fight getting killed, hurt. Very few animals get that way. And usually animals will only fight like that, like the elk is at the end of a winter season when they have hardly any blood fat left in their body.

— In that case what is the adrenalin doing?

Aajonus: It’s irritating the nervous system, so that all of this neural transmission doesn’t make a lot of sense. So it’s confused.

— Okay, and when you do have ample blood fat how is it informing the flight response? By doing what? What is the adrenalin doing in that case?

Aajonus: Well, your mind is able to work and say, "Wait a minute. I don’t want to get hurt."

— I mean like in a crisis, people suddenly become strong and can lift up the rear end of a car. What is the adrenalin doing in that case?

Aajonus: It calls out the fat and burns it and uses it in the muscles.

— As energy.

Aajonus: Right.

— Instead of stimulating the nerves in a wrongful way.

Aajonus: Exactly. But even if it's in an emergency situation where somebody has lifted the car, the end product of the burning of that much adrenalin in the system creates something like a flu effect or like the result of having about eleven cups of coffee, and there are a lot of toxins that need to be removed and taken care of. So anybody that has gone through an emotional crisis that you are working with, you need to treat them a little differently. A lot more protein during those times, because a lot of tissue will be damaged. You need to get them to calm down.

— So they need to eat more meat.

Aajonus: Well, usually I say fish. Anytime there is a trauma, fish is best.

— Why?

Aajonus: There are a lot of minerals in it and it helps to relax the mind, stimulates the brain to secrete its fluids and to take over the body instead of the hormonal/emotional influence taking charge of the body.

— So, fish has more minerals than meat because of the sea water and sea algae?

Aajonus: A lot more. Very concentrated. So they have that in conjunction with some butter and cream, and you have them eat it a couple of times a day. And that will usually calm them right down within forty-eight hours. Otherwise it can take weeks or months, even months and months to recover from an emotional trauma.

— After that point is reached, do you cut that back or do they keep eating in the same way?

Aajonus: Well, they will go back to their normal diet, whatever it may be. If it’s beef, then they go back to beef. Although it takes forty- eight hours for an emotional trauma to really calm down, it could take two weeks to clear out completely. So they should still eat the fish once a day, even if they are normally beef eaters. And if they are still a little triggered, have them eat the beef and the fish together.

— At the same time?

Aajonus: Yes. Especially if they are normally white meat eaters and they have gone through an emotional trauma, I don’t let them eat beef without fish. They have to eat them together if they are to eat beef.

— So now you’ve gotten a feel for the person emotionally and in all sorts of other ways...

Aajonus: Yes, now you’ve relaxed their guilt to an extent, as much as you can. Then I start investigating their system. First I’ll look at the eyes and map out what I see.

— What do you look for? The number of live cells?

Aajonus: Well, first I look at lesions and brown spots.

— To digress for a moment, what is the purpose of determining how dry someone’s system is?

Aajonus: It gives me an idea of how much cirrhosed tissue there is.

— From the degree of dryness?

Aajonus: Dead tissue. It’s like tanning a hide inside your body, I know that when you start cleaning that out, it’s going to take some pretty toxic solvents that your body is going to have to produce and it’s going to be pretty nasty cleaning it out.

— If you are dried out.

Aajonus: Yeah. If you have cirrhosed tissue from it. I look at the elbows and knees. So if the elbows are dry I would probably find cirrhosed tissue in the arms and shoulders and/or maybe in the back and chest. It is almost impossible to evaluate the hip areas without looking at the rectum and I don’t generally do that.

— You mean the opening of the rectum to see if it’s dry inside?

Aajonus: Yes. And it will have skin built up all around it. It will be thick. But I can usually tell without looking at somebody’s rectum. I can tell by the way that they sit or stand. And if they have no flexibility in this area and they are a little slow in sitting down or favor that area, I know that they’ve got some damage there.

— Like scar tissue.

Aajonus: Possibly, but not flexible scar tissue — rather scar tissue that has absolutely no circulating fluids at all.

— And if a person doesn’t have any dryness on their elbows and knees?

Aajonus: It means that they won’t go through as much trauma. Let’s say a person with cirrhosed tissue could take thirty-five years to get to optimum. If they don’t have it, it may take them twenty or fifteen. Getting back to the eyes, the white spots in the eyes are all infections. In the outer and the lymph area right near the skin all those are lymph glands. The outer gray line. So the spots that are right there, those are lymph glands that are trying to break down matter. Those are infections in those glands. So those are very active, good glands. But they are dealing with a lot of garbage, to be that active, to have that much infection going on.

— But I see the white spots all through out.

Aajonus: Right.

— So, it’s not just in the lymph area.

Aajonus: You’ve got them in the muscle tissues in some areas. On your right eye, you’ve got a lot of them through here, your jaw, your neck, going all the way down the thyroid into your esophagus. So you have it scattered. And your back too, I think. A lot in your back, more than any other place.

— I have been dealing with the back along with the prostate discomfort.

Aajonus: All in here. More than anywhere else in the system.

— So, white is an infection always.

Aajonus: Well, the white lines throughout are fibers. That’s good vitality. And the spots are always a good sign. They show that you are breaking down matter. But you can be overworking it. Like you go on and on and all of a sudden it stops and your immune system stops working. You just don’t want to overwork it, so you want to put the right stuff in it.

So what I am trying to say is that you’ve got a lot of infection in your body. You don’t want to try to stop it. You just want to stop putting toxicity in your body that it needs to then break down.

Now, the brown, the yellowish-brown area all around the intestines. You see yours is acidic. And that’s a negative acidity all throughout the intestines. That’s where you are holding most of your toxicity.

— In the colon?

Aajonus: Yes. And small intestines.

— Do you see liver in there?

Aajonus: The liver area on the eye is right around here. Your brown area, your yellowish-brown area is going like this, around like that. So your liver is affected. You also have some brown coming around here, yellowish-brown. It’s very light. And that’s around the prostate. The darker browns means there is a lot more saturation. Toxicity. This is very dark. Darker up here, the colon, the transverse colon and the ascending colon on the right side.

So I would right whatever is observed in your eye. Your liver comes up about 8:10, right around up in here, so everything in yours is moved up a little bit. Unless you are having some difficulty in your chest, up here? Ribs, any sensitivity?

— Not really.

Aajonus: It’s probably from your back. Okay, so that’s the back. So, I would say your liver is involved in there, because you have the jaundice.

— The yellow complexion and the darkness. It’s been that way for years, except when I fast. When I fast it goes away.

Aajonus: Because your liver doesn’t have to digest anything. Doesn’t have a lot of fats to digest and anything else. Now, look right at 2:50, right here. There is a lesion. Right here.

— What’s a lesion?

Aajonus: You will see. Look for it.

— And that’s the trachea?

Aajonus: Well, on you, it’s probably the thyroid. Yours is a little lower. I think your whole diagram is turned a little bit. Now look at 3:00. You are on the right eye, so it’s right here. Right in the half of the eye. That’s a lesion.

— That dark bluish thing that’s going out at an angle. That’s what’s called a lesion?

Aajonus: Yes. That’s a lesion.

— And that could be what color?

Aajonus: They are dark. They are always dark. Flat.

— Not brown.

Aajonus: No.

— Brown is toxicity.

Aajonus: You can have a lesion with toxicity in it. But a lesion is sort of a darker blotch without fibers going through it. Usually no fibers. It’s a saturation of the tissue. A lesion means there is a dead area. There is not much life in it.

— Versus something that is just toxic.

Aajonus: Yes.

— And does it usually correlate? If the inside here shows that side of the thyroid, this shows the other side of the thyroid, do you expect them to look similar?

Aajonus: No. I usually find one side unhealthier than the other, but they don’t have to correlate. No, they don’t have to balance at all. Because, if one side applies to the same side and not the other side, you will not move... you won’t know which one to look at. Since you don’t know which one to look at and you don’t know which one to look at, [sic] this shows that you’ve got the opposites.

— You mean which finger to look at?

Aajonus: Right. But a person who’s got them on both sides, one eye locks on one finger and there’s no jumping with the eye.

— Oh, so you watch to see if the eye is doing this.

Aajonus: The eye doesn’t know which way to go, I know that it’s... that it does apply to the opposite side.

— But in me it doesn’t?

Aajonus: Yeah, for you it applies to the opposite side because you didn’t know which one to look at.

— So I am not one of the exceptions to that rule.

Aajonus: Yes.

— But if you’ve got a lesion on the thyroid in this eye and not on that side, that tells you that the thyroid is a problem. No matter which side, really.

Aajonus: Yes. Let’s say if it’s on the right side, it’s over here. But that doesn’t matter, except that you can massage it, gently.

— Now, the other thing is, you have to use all the other observations that you’ve made in order to realize that the chart is skewed on any given individual. Right?

Aajonus: Yes. Right.

— So you have to take the whole picture into account.

Aajonus: Yes. Now really all you are doing is getting a good picture of how long it’s going to take. If you’ve got damaged glands, it takes two to two and a half years to get somebody’s glands in shape, to rebuilt the glands before they are really going to make a lot of momentum. Then you figure after you get that glandular activity balanced, then each year they can gain from one and half to two percent of cellular life a year. So that means they get younger and healthier and stronger by that much percentage every year.

So let’s say I figure — this fellow I had today. Okay he’s got forty-two percent alive, fifty-seven percent alive here. Now that will rise. Once you get to about a twelve, fifteen-year level, then it can get to two percent to two and a half percent per year. So I figure it’s going to take him about thirty-five years to get to optimal. I’ve got forty-three to go on this side. That’s not forty-three years. I’ve got to get his glands well first. His whole digestive tract, and that could take me two years. I consider the digestive tract the same as a gland. It takes two to two and a half years to get that in optimal shape. So I’ve got two years there, and then I’ve forty-three percent to go at one and a half percent and then it may go to two to two and a half. So it will take about thirty years for that person to get optimal because of the amount of toxicity.

— You use the lowest figure of the two sides.

Aajonus: Yes. Well, this is sixty-five percent health and forty-two percent of alive. So if I go over here, I know that I’ve got forty-eight percent. I need fifty-eight percent of cellular life to go up here. So two percent would make that about twenty-four years, just there, if they go two percent per year. But I have to take in that there are going to be times when the body is not going to be regenerating cells and so forth.

— Yes, but I don’t understand. Between these two figures, which one do you go with?

Aajonus: This right side. The right side of his body has fifty-seven percent of the cells alive. All you do is go the average. Say thirty-five years it’s going to take this person to get to optimal.

Now let me take a person who is younger. Let me say I have somebody is their twenties, late twenties. Cellular life normally is going to be up around sixty to seventy percent or better. But the health may be way down low. So, for them to bring the health up and regenerate the cells, it could take them twenty years, depending upon drugs that they may have had. If they have got drug storages, they have to be cleaned out. That’s a very slow process.

Somebody has been on cocaine; you know it’s going to take a lot longer time. You can almost double the amount of time it’s going to take. Or if they’ve had chemotherapy, you can multiply it by two and a half, if they even get well.

So this is just to give yourself a barometer to know, this person is going to get well faster than what the rate will be. And what you do is tell them. Whenever I get somebody like this I say, "If you are building a castle, and your body is a castle, how long does it take?" It took your body how long to age that way, how long to get that used and old, and you want to rebuild the whole thing, but you are going to use the present structure. So you’ve got to pull a stone or a brick out and you put one in, and you keep doing that so it takes a lot longer than it does for the twenty years for you to grow the first time.

— Well, do you feel, then, that if you approach it gradually then with this approach to the diet and the healing altogether, do you feel that people who are really seriously sick, you know, terminally ill and close to death, how do you feel about taking them on?

Aajonus: Like I said, I told Owanza that I couldn’t help her when she came to me.

— Unless she would eat meat.

Aajonus: Well, when she said she wouldn’t eat the meat, she had to agree to eat the amounts that I told her to eat and the combinations precisely. And she agreed. So I took her on. I didn’t think she’d make it. But then I didn’t think a lot of people were going to make it that made it. Now these two people that I had here. I knew that one could make it, but it would be hell for her.

— When you say hell, you’ve been through that so you know, right? You’ve had all those experiences through your leukemia?

Aajonus: Yes. And the poisonous mushroom experience was twice as bad as the leukemia. It took eleven years to heal.

— Will you treat somebody while they are continuing with radiation and chemotherapy?

Aajonus: No if you are taking radiation or chemo, I won’t treat you.

— But can’t you lessen the side effects and make it easier?

Aajonus: Yes, I will, but it is going to make their life harder.

— The diet will?

Aajonus: No. I told one woman, "Listen, you’ve got a good chance of getting well, even though you had had a lot of radiation therapy, but it’s going to be difficult because the symptoms of radiation poisoning are mass vomiting, nauseousness, and irritability. You hate everybody." And she said, "Yeah. I go through that." And I told her that when it is actually cleaning out of your body, it’s actually going to purge out of you and you are going to find yourself vomiting radioactive matter. It just dumps into your stomach and you vomit it. And you are going to be doing that with the dead cells anyway. So it’s going to be pretty difficult.

— So it could make it more difficult for them while they are on the radiation as opposed to making it easier to tolerate the side effects?

Aajonus: No, because as long as they have the radiation, the radiation is a poison and the body deals with the poison. It will not clean out anything old at all. It will deal with what is in the blood, the toxicity that is in the blood. So it makes it easier. I had one woman who would get chemotherapy, and she would come out and she was a hateful person. And I would take her through the food, and I had taken her right before she started the fourth session. So she had already been through three actual sessions. And she was irritable from beginning to end, and that is why her son came to me, to help. So then I started working with her. So she had two bad weeks. But it mitigated the side effects. And then she had about four weeks before the next session. By the fourth week she was doing fine. And then she would go right back in and get another chemotherapy treatment and she would come out bad.

— But, it helped her with all the chemotherapy side effects.

Aajonus: Yes, it helped her with all that, but she died anyway. Because once the chemotherapy stops, then the body is going to start dealing with all the chemotherapy that is stored, because it’s a poison and the body wants to get rid of it before it does more damage.

So I probably have turned down about ten in the last two months because I said, "If you are under medical treatment, you stick with it. The raw food diet, the book will help you, but I won’t."

— Have you ever had anyone try and blame you when they didn’t get better?

Aajonus: No, because they always saw improvement, they always saw change.

— But people who did it for a while and then quit doing it.

Aajonus: Yes. I’ve had that kind of attrition rate. And it never has been because of that. It’s been because a girl has met a boy who likes cooked food and gets off of it. Or like one actor who was on the diet for sixteen years – did great. He is a Cuban who married a Mexican girl who had to have cooked foods. And they went to a psychiatrist and the psychiatrist said, "You have to make her feel good and eat the cooked foods." And he started eating cooked foods. And I said, "Well, the marriage or his body." That’s his choice. There’s nothing I can do about it. But that’s usually it. It’s a social thing that drives them away frrom the diet. But when they get sick again, they will go back to it.

Continuing with what I was saying earlier, the blood spots in Susan’s eyes that I mentioned in the book were actually blood red, a bright red rust color, like a bloodstone.

— So hemorrhage would come up as red. Is there anything else that could be indicated by red?

Aajonus: The woman who died about three weeks ago had in her intestinal area... this intestinal area. You see this little circular area that spikes out around. Now hers was a little thicker, very brown, and see this spot here. It has to be a bright red. That’s a dark red. This could be rust right here. Metals that are actually rusting. Iron deposits or something that are actually rusting in the body.

— Could it be other metals? Toxic metals like lead?

Aajonus: Any that will rust. You can have black spots that will have those kinds of minerals. But the body usually doesn’t like to concentrate minerals in one area. It will build it into the bone. This shows that the skull is very, very packed with toxic minerals. It’s coming out through the skull. So this person would probably be gray haired very young.

This darkness here, the size of this... there was one the size of that, and then two little spots that were blood red in her eye. She came with a distended stomach here, and I said, "You’ve got some kind of internal bleeding inside. You’ve got to go to the doctor." It was right here near the ileocecal valve. She didn’t go and have it taken care of, and finally when she did two weeks after I told her to, she died a week later in the hospital. And they found no blood there, they found all this really yellow, deep yellow fluid in her abdominal cavity. Now they hypothesized that it was the liver, because the liver was almost a solid mass, cirrhosed tissue. But what it showed in the iris, it showed that it was seeping from the bowel, the small intestine and the large intestine, right where they met, it was seeping from there. Bile and fluids. I didn’t get to see it. The husband described it to me.

And you will see a circular pattern here. Now some people are white, and some people are dark. Those I call worry circles. There is a line that comes here, and then there is a brown one here, and then a darker one. Some people have light ones, and they are usually on the underside circulating around. Those are worry circles. Those people take worry deeply about things. They’ve got all this tension. And it causes actual breaks, like waves in the eyes.

I take a look at those because I know not to give them citric acid foods because it will irritate their nerves.

— Like vitamin C?

Aajonus: I don’t give anybody vitamin C anyway, because it’s dangerous stuff.

— In terms of the nerves?

Aajonus: Yes. And psychologically it irritates everything. The glandular tissue, the intestinal walls, if it happens ever to get into the intestine. It usually passes right into the blood and the blood tries to dump it everywhere else.

I won’t feed those people any citrus. I have them eat calming foods like melons and mangoes and stuff like that.

— So nervous anxiety, avoid citrus. Nervous, high strung.

Aajonus: Right. Feed them fruits with lots of Vitamin A in it and Vitamin A oil. All fruits have a certain amount of oil in them, fats in them. Mango is one of the highest.

— You don’t ever supplement A. You just obtain it from the food.

Aajonus: Get it in the food. Watermelon is replete with it, resplendent in it.

— I juice the rinds of the watermelon.

Aajonus: They have a tendency to give a lot of people diarrhea, so you have to watch for that one. I noticed that when I was living outdoors.

So fruits that are high in vitamin A are very calming for people who have nervous disorders.

— So would you actually avoid oranges, orange juice, grapefruit, grapefruit juice, tangerines, etc. for the type A personality.

Aajonus: Not necessarily. If they are getting enough fats and they eat fats with it, it’s fine. But with the people who have nervous disorders, I don’t like to give it to them until they’ve been on the diet about six weeks – minimum.

— And when you say nervous disorders does that include Alzheimer’s?

Aajonus: By nervous disorders I mean they have a lot of tension, they hold a lot of tension, they are very emotional, paranoid, worry warts. People who worry about everything. They look toward the negative, the pessimistic.

Now I like to give them, if they can get it, fresh aloe vera and kefir. Raw plain kefir. Anything that’s soothing and relaxing – those people need it.

— Regarding honey, when I am piling four or five tablespoons into a drink or recipe the old conditioning kicks in, particularly since I used to be hypoglycemic, and I wonder about any negative effects on the blood sugar.

Aajonus: Remember, only ten percent of it goes into the blood.

— Because it’s unheated honey. And if it were heated?

Aajonus: It would go right into the blood. Ninety percent would go into the blood as sugar.

— And why is that, biochemically?

Aajonus: It just alters the chemical structure. In raw form it’s just a body of enzymes. But once you heat it, it turns into a sugar. If you look at unheated honey biochemically, it looks like a monosaccharide, but it’s not. It’s properties are like a monosaccharide with a lot of unusual patterns to it. When you heat it, it looks exactly like a disaccharide, just like any old processed sugar, and of course, it takes almost one hundred and thirty-two degrees to turn it into the actual appearance of that, but I’ve seen the changes in myself and other people from temperatures beyond one hundred degrees.

— And if you don’t use a fat with it, it still won’t go into the blood stream and cause that same effect, because it’s unheated.

Aajonus: Right.

— So you are using the honey to break the fat down, but there is nothing really happening in the reverse direction.

Aajonus: If you eat the honey by itself, it still won’t raise your blood sugar. If the fat weren’t present, the honey would be used somewhere else, used somewhere other than to digest the fat. It would be used somewhere else in the body. The honey can be transformed into enzymes that you’ve leached throughout your whole life that are missing in the body. That’s why I say, eat a lot of honey.

When you combine it with the fat, most of it will be used to break down the fat, to digest it since most of us aren’t well enough. And any extra will be utilized throughout the body.

— Therefore, it would seem to be useful to just eat the straight honey once in a while.

Aajonus: You see me sucking it down. I often just take the honey. I tell people to eat as much honey as they want with or without fat.

— Now if someone is having trouble digesting raw foods ...

Aajonus: I’ve never heard of such a thing.

— Salad in particular.

Aajonus: I tell people, "I never told you to eat raw salad. It says in my book: do not eat raw salad, drink the juices."

— No salad at all?

Aajonus: If you want to once in a while and you crave it, I say in the book, "Eat it."

— It’s the one thing you can fall back on when you are out to lunch with somebody – you can always get a salad, but you can’t always get a salad juiced.

Aajonus: Right. Well, then I suggest you eat some honey with it.

— So a lot of honey in salad dressing is a good idea. What do you feel about nutritional yeast? We use it in salad dressing and on popcorn.

Aajonus: I don’t think it’s good. It’s all processed and very heated. Natureaid used to make yeast that was grown on the whey of milk. It was raw and never went over ninety-two degrees or something like that, even in dehydration. Phenomenal stuff. I used to eat that stuff like crazy. It was called primary nutritional yeast.

— Maybe there is such a product around.

Aajonus: No.

— There isn’t. You checked.

Aajonus: It costs too much. Took too long to dehydrate, process, do the whole thing. So financially everybody got out of it. Now that would be a product if somebody really wanted to make a good product. When my book comes out, there are probably a lot of products that are going to come out as a reaction to it.

— If we took a typical "day in the life of Aajonus", what do you eat? By the way, do you ever eat rice cakes?

Aajonus: I haven’t eaten rice cakes in probably three years. I like them, but I just do not crave cooked starches very often. And when I crave it, it’s usually pasta or baked potato.

— Do you eat a lot of fruit?

Aajonus: No. I go through different phases. Each season my body goes through its changes. When I wasn’t as healthy, my body wasn’t seasonal, wasn’t in tune with the seasons. It wanted lots of fruit, at all different times, and I had to eat fats with them, but I ate a lot of fruit.

Now I rarely eat fruit. And if I eat it, I can’t eat it alone. Like strawberries, I used to be able to just put honey and strawberries together and eat them, eat a little butter before, a little cream before. Now I have to blend... and I love strawberries, but I cannot eat them. I can take one bite and I just want to spit it out. I still love the taste, but I just can’t eat it.

— What happens?

Aajonus: It makes my mouth just start drooling, and it almost repulses me. So I blend it with cream and milk and honey and it’s delicious. But I have come to that point where fruits are just not strong in my diet. Of course as we get more toward summer and my body needs more fluids, it will be different. Or that is the way it’s been in the past. But this year has been the least fruit that I’ve eaten.

— Regarding the honey as a digestive aid, I imagine you would never recommend digestive enzymes to anyone in capsule form or anything like that.

Aajonus: No.

— Honey would be about the best thing?

Aajonus: Yes. Those other things are going to be very little utilized and they are already processed and dehydrated. They are really not active.

— So papaya, honey, and pineapple would be good natural digestive aids.

Aajonus: All fruit has enzymes which help you digest anything. And so do vegetable juices. Those other things are gimmicks.

— People associate the raw diet with a lot of salad, a lot of sprouts, a lot of germinated grains, things like that. Do you ever eat sprouts?

Aajonus: If I am at a restaurant and they have alfalfa sprouts on the salad, sure, I’ll have them. People associate the raw diet with a meatless diet, so they are always trying to fill up on other things.

— What do people do who live in places where they can’t get raw dairy?

Aajonus: They can always get raw cheese. You can get that anywhere. And they can probably all get the raw unsalted butter too.

— So basically focus on the butter and cheese.

Aajonus: See here are those knees I was talking about. See how thick that skin is. And this person isn’t too bad really compared to the average person that I look at. See these big brown spots. Those show massive amounts of toxicity when they are dark like that.

— And the darker they are, the more it’s moving toward the cirrhosed condition, more toxic, more broken down?

Aajonus: Yes.

— And then the brown will eventually turn into a black spot? Is a black, dead spot a further development of a brown, toxic spot?

Aajonus: No. No. Usually it will form into cancer. It will stay that way. It doesn’t go darker. That’s as dark as I’ve ever seen it get.

— What about cancer?

Aajonus: It looks like this. It starts breaking up.

— Okay. A little dark coming through.

Aajonus: Yes. And just more and more starts permeating. Now, look at this person. Now this person probably has a blue eye because of the grayness in there. I can’t really tell, because this looks purple so the coloring isn’t great. See this person’s intestine? Distended all the way out. Very distended intestine. See how far out it comes. Look at the ridge all along here. That ridge shows the intestine. Over here it goes way out to here. That pattern. It’s the ridge of the intestines.

— So it can actually get that jagged?

Aajonus: Oh God yes. And you will see people with stomachs that just hang like this. And if they were to cut open their intestines, some of them would be this thick. This could even be down here prolapsed.

— And as you go around, does that line up with the different organs in the intestinal ring?

Aajonus: Yes. It puts pressure on them and then it will cause all sorts of problems.

— There are different points in the intestine that correspond to every organ, and that is kind of what this gives you?

Aajonus: Yes. Now look at these lesions. This person’s intestine is very large too. See this lesion here right in the leg and foot area. He’s got psoriasis. Big lesions there. Lesions all over. This person has psoriasis all over.

But you see these little white spots. That’s these. He is so outdated, he is calling these sores this spot, and it isn’t. It’s actually in the skin and the skin is here. You see how brown that skin is all along there? The white spots are infections. Here. This is what you have. Lots of... the lymph is inflamed there and it means they are decomposing. They are working nicely. So it shows healing.

— When you say brown is toxins and dark is dead tissue, to me if a tissue is toxic, it is in the process of becoming dead, isn’t it?

Aajonus: Not necessarily.

— If it’s laced with toxins, cells are being destroyed.

Aajonus: You can have some pretty bizarre people out there alive in mutations. It doesn’t mean that they are dead. But this usually means that there is no connection with the energy force at all.

— So a tumor that has blood flow to it, for example, would be brown.

Aajonus: Yes. Now, see how thin this person is. He is pushing his stomach in with his fingers, but you see he has got a normal digestive tract. See the line, circular motion. Got a little problem over here. It’s reaching out. But he is very thin. But look he has got so much life going on everywhere. Lots of live cells, lots of veins all the way through. He just needs to eat a little bit better.

Now look at this guy, this distended stomach. You can see where his intestine comes down here and actually breaks into that spot. Look at that tummy.

— This is the same guy.

Aajonus: Before and after. See how it’s healing up in here. And coming down, becoming normal.

— Yesterday you were telling me about how many live cells are indicated.

Aajonus: This one is much like yours. You don’t have the high inflammation on the edges, but you’ve got lots of brown in that area. This is bowel pockets and diverticula. Diverticulum is here and here, a little here. This lesion is showing... that’s actually a lesion inside the nerve wreath. This little line out here he calls the nerve wreath which connects it. To me that’s the lacteal system on this side. Almost all around it’s the lacteal system. I don’t call it the nerve wreath. But you see here you’ve got a lesion in the lining where the arrow is going. And there are a lot of little ones.

See how he has broken the intestine down like this to the eye. Now here are some very dark, toxic spots. Minerals, toxicity. And the small, tight pupil indicates extreme nervous tension.

— What’s a tight pupil? It changes with the light.

Aajonus: I agree. To me it happens in a light eye. I see it happen in a light eye.


Aajonus: But most of those minerals store in the bones.

— So when you say minerals, if it’s an abdominal wall area, you mean like pelvic bone?

Aajonus: Yes. It would be around there. One of the pelvic bones. Or in a femur joint.

— What could it be? Could it be an arthritic problem?

Aajonus: His whole femur joint could be dissolving.

— Osteoporosis?

Aajonus: Yes.

— So the brown could be any variety of conditions – it could be a tumor.

Aajonus: Not when it’s that dark. There may be some spots within it. But that doesn’t connote cancer. Nothing is absolute, because you have some strange cases, but most of the cancer cases I see are like this. The brown, the lighter brown. I mean it can get this deep in some spots, but I’ve seen it consistently as lots of brown, large brown areas, large brown spots.

— The only reason you do the dead cells and the live cells is to get an estimate of how long it’s going to take. Right?

Aajonus: Yes. Right. Now see these eyes. This was done when people were healthier in general. See all these fibers, lots of fibers, lots of live cells, even though this person is a mess.

Here is somebody with a brown eye. You see the worry circle?

— Yes!

Aajonus: That person is a mess, because it goes completely around.

— You mean that person would be a nervous wreck?

Aajonus: Yes. A nervous mess. You can bet someone like that has been through a few nervous breakdowns. There’s even a double line in the brain area. And another one through here, and here, and here. This person is just a nervous wreck. This is that same eye we saw earlier. He has taken some good clear shots and people with a lot of live cells. Here is somebody with a good constitution and bloodshot eyes. Figure that one out. Terrible circulation.

— Bloodshot indicates terrible circulation.

Aajonus: Right. And a discoloration shows lots of bile in the blood or a very acidic bloodstream.

— So this is a good constitution because, again, there are all those filaments radiating there.

Aajonus: Yes. Lots of them! An incredible amount.

— You don’t mean native constitution. You mean just a current healthy state. In other words, this person is currently healthy.

Aajonus: Yes. Except for the bloodstream. I can see some lesions and the outer parts of the muscles in some area. The person probably does some kind of activity involving the arms and chest and legs, and probably... It’s just at the end of the muscle band going into the bone, the lymph and the skin. And it’s all damaged. So the person must be getting into contact with something toxic – working with chemicals or something.

— And you can tell which parts.

Aajonus: Yes. Which parts of the body.

— From where it is in the circle.

Aajonus: Right. He’s breathing it in too. It’s affecting over here. Usually this swelling happens on the inside. So this is the right eye. So you see this takes in this whole area in here, so the person must be working with this part of their body and on both sides you can see how it’s affecting the lungs, the arms, hands.

— And what is all this solid gray down on the bottom, this narrower band?

Aajonus: This is the skin. The skin is usually always a dark green. It’s mostly dead. It’s not really a live substance. It’s almost like the difference between a glandular cell and hair. Skin. So it doesn’t appear like a live substance like the inner part of us.

— Meaning it’s more solid. It doesn’t have the filaments radiating through it.

Aajonus: Correct. But that doesn’t mean it’s unhealthy. And then you have the bone. The lymph and then the bone. But you have these fibers radiating all the way out to the skin in this one. So this person is pretty healthy. Except that their bloodstream is pretty bad right now. And this could be a very old person too, with still a lot of life in them. You just don’t see this kind of thing any more. It’s a rarity. You may see it in some natives that live in a jungle or something like that.

— So a lot of red lines in the eyes could be an indicator of atherosclerosis or a weak heart or anything.

Aajonus: It just means poor bloodstream.

— You mean quality of blood, not necessarily obstruction in the cardiovascular system.

Aajonus: Right. It means quality of blood is bad. But say this person has worked around some kind of asbestos. The glass and asbestos chemical could have damaged the whole bloodstream and this shows up in the whites of the eyes.

— What about a person that is detoxing and the blood is dirty from detoxing, like at some stages of the diet, for instance. Wouldn’t their eyes be more bloodshot?

Aajonus: Yes. Or when they are detoxing with a flu and a lot of the toxins are dumping in the system, they get bloodshot eyes. Also, let’s say somebody has jaundice, severe jaundice, hepatitis, the whites of the eyes go yellow. This person’s lymph system is starting to break down pretty badly, because there are lesions in it.

Now when I started studying iridology back in the late sixties and early seventies, when I looked at most people, most people were like this. Now I look at them and nobody is this much alive anymore, or rarely. My eyes were a lot like this, a lot more brown in it and a lot more green. See, they have made this look blue. It turned its white into blue, but it isn’t really that color. It’s more of a gray-brown- green-hazel.

— But this person if he were totally healthy would have amber eyes?

Aajonus: Yes. Close to these shades in here.

Iridology started in Budapest, Hungary. There was another woman in the sixteen hundred in Germany, Anne something. She also studied iridology and came up with it before this fellow.

— So how do you determine about the cells?

Aajonus: I look and see that there is less fiber. So I can say in this part of this person’s body, in this segment right here, there is about fifty percent life here. I will break it down in small areas. Now when I look at anybody I can do it immediately, but when I first did it, I would take sections.

It is about fifty percent alive or less. So let’s say that this is about forty-five percent alive or less. But forty-five maximum. Then I would come down here and I would take a look at this area, because this gets very solid. So this area, I would say that this about eighty percent. Over here, I would say this is a good ninety-six, ninety- seven percent. So, that’s all you do. You just go in and measure and average it.

Now when you get into blurry areas like this. You see how the lines aren’t as defined. It’s just going fuzzy as if you didn’t see clearly.

Those are pretty much cells that can’t do anything. So you may as well count them as dead.

— Meaning that they can’t recover?

Aajonus: That they don’t produce prostaglandin, that they are not functioning. But they are not dead.

— Could that eventually become filamentous?

Aajonus: If somebody goes on a good diet. Or it can go the other way where it will develop lesions.

— So then adding those all up this person would probably be about sixty-five percent dead, thirty-five percent alive. And you do that for each eye, and then average the two.

Aajonus: Yes. Now, if I see patterns like this, I will mark them. I will take a pattern like this. Usually if it’s pretty even I won’t pattern it out. But you see this person had eyes that were just all over the place, patterns all over the place, so I actually drew it out. But I don’t usually draw it out. I will just make my notations when it’s necessary to tell them how much they are alive.

— So that’s pretty much the extent that you use iridology.

Aajonus: Yes, that’s all. It’s not necessary because then you start getting them worried, you are talking too much time in diagnostics, and it’s not going to help them. You cannot go in for one particular area by itself. You look at the patterns that have gone toward that area.

You will see it on somebody who has Alzheimer’s. You see this cloud up here. This shows inflammation in the skull and in the skin and what lymph there is, lymph lining the skull.

— It’s gone light.

Aajonus: Right, but it’s not white, so it’s not really a healable infection. It’s going cloudy. The whole upper area is going cloudy. The outermost is the skin, and you see it’s almost disappeared up here, which means that there is almost no skin existent. It’s just a mass of dead tissue, blocked tissue. The body is trying to bring it back to life. But you see the whole area is fogging in up here. This whole brain area here, upper part of the body from the neck up. The tongue all the way up, that whole area.

— Are most of these parallel in the two eyes?

Aajonus: Yes.

— They all match exactly and outsides match.

Aajonus: So this eye has the liver and this eye has the pancreas. However, it shows the spleen there, but the pancreas is over here too. I don’t know where he’s put the pancreas. He’s put it over here.

— You’ve found that the inner is the outside.

Aajonus: Correct. And science also, the science of neurology corroborates that. Except in a few people. I could take you out on the beach and I could show you somebody — I am not going to approach him that way — but his one side relates to one side and he went to UCLA and they tested him and they said, "Yes, this applies to that side."

So, anyway, when it clouds over, you will see a cloud like this over the whole thing and you really can’t see fibers and you can’t see lesions, it’s just a fog, a blurred fog that will come down. In Parkinson’s it’s usually down here like this, all the way down here. In Alzheimer’s the whole thing will be clouded. That’s in very advanced cases.

— On both sides?

Aajonus: Sometimes not. Sometimes just one side.

So those are the only things you have to look for. If you see a fog up there, you know you have to go to the Alzheimer’s section of the book, or the Parkinson’s section. If it’s this bad you know that you can stop it and reverse it. When it’s usually full, it’s pretty difficult. And depending upon their age.

— There are people that are in no condition to be able to read the book and to get a real grounded sense of what this is that they are going to do, and they are going to either have to do it on faith or not do it. A lot of people would be in that condition. A lot of cancer patients can’t sit and read.

Aajonus: I haven’t found that problem. I’ve had that problem with Parkinson’s and Lupis where their hands are just so in pain, they just can’t hold the book. Even to get up and turn... I’ve got one client who practically committed suicide because he loved my book and kept reading the first part of it and just to turn the pages by the end of an hour, he was nearly suicidal from the pain. And he just every day he would just keep forcing himself to do it, and he went through months and months of pain. He never got to the end of the book. Just did it on pure faith.

— Do you ever look at the nails?

Aajonus: Yes, sometimes. I spot those right away. I look at them when I am looking at the hands. Because I do look at the hands. Palms

— We haven’t talked about that. But on your nails, for example, do you have any ridges?

Aajonus: Yes, I have some ridges.

— Now, I’ve always understood that to be either mineral deficiency or B vitamins. Yours aren’t very deep.

— So what does that mean?

Aajonus: Well, mine go in and out. Like mine came out in the last two years, and I started throwing off the last... I’ve got two remaining toxic mineral areas. They just show up as yellow areas in my brain and in my testicles.

— Through the eye.

Aajonus: Yes. Through the eye. And whenever I start detoxing those minerals, they build into my hair. All of a sudden I’ve got gray hair. Two or three years ago I had lots of gray hair, then it went away. Then all of a sudden when I started detoxing the minerals again, the gray started coming out, and it will probably go away again. And my nails ridge during those periods.

— And those minerals are still being leached out of the tissues in the body?

Aajonus: Yes. To be eliminated. And I do things to encourage that, like eating raspberries. Raspberries and eggs or raspberries and cream together will help pull those out.

— What about citrus?

Aajonus: Doesn’t pull out the minerals. Pulls out fat storages, dead cells and stuff like that, but not minerals. Got to have a berry that’s heavy in minerals. Blackberries, mostly raspberries will pull out mineral deposits, drug deposits.

— Attracting them?

Aajonus: Yes. The raspberries – when I studied it’s mold, there are so many minerals present. And like attracts like, like you say. No other berry has that concentration of minerals, of heavier minerals as the raspberries do. The strawberry is high in silicone. Blackberries are high in some other minerals. But the raspberry is the highest in metallic, and almost have an alkaloid appearance to them. That’s how they help pull out drugs and alkaloids from drugs.

Now the hands. If the person is very old and not well at all, I will look at the feet, or they have problems on their feet, they have psoriasis, I will take a look at the feet. But I read like a palmist.

This is the pancreas.

— This is just above the ball of the thumb in the fatty place.


Aajonus: Okay, the place in the hand for the pancreas, if that is puffy, it means it’s ademic. If it’s red, that means it’s swollen. In both indications and both situations, both conditions, it means that the pancreas is overactive. Secreting too much insulin lowers the blood sugar. That person has hypoglycemia. If the area looks like a chicken’s cowl or turkey’s cowl, folded skin, ridged, that’s a sign that the pancreas is pretty much dead, inactive, and they are diabetic, and they need to eat jerusalem artichokes, yams, anything with natural inulin in it to help process that they eat, and they should always eat the sugars with something, and lots of honey, because the honey will also substitute for the insulin.

— Really!?

Aajonus: Yes. Now, there is a line that comes directly off of the inside of the thumb. In some people it’s a line. In other people, like you, it’s just a small crease. The deeper the crease, the more active the adrenal glands. If it’s very deep, that means they are hyperactive. The mound at the base of the thumb.

— It’s shallow, or almost non...

Aajonus: If it’s almost non-existent, it means that it’s inactive. The person may be lethargic or have adrenal... now I’ve seen adrenal exhaustion in somebody who has an adrenal gland like this, but the area is also flat and lifeless. And that’s adrenal exhaustion. So you can have low adrenal activity or adrenal exhaustion. The large mound here at the base of the thumb relates to the gonads or the ovaries and the other sexual organs like the prostate gland and whatever.

— The prostate too?

Aajonus: Yes. The prostate will even be involved in that, but that’s down around here.

— So down here, prostate will be here.

Aajonus: And if it’s real puffy and swollen, you will see it.

— Do you see it on me?

Aajonus: Relax your hand. See, you’ve already got a tendency to it, because you’ve got a large bone here.

— So that would indicate prostate inflammation?

Aajonus: Only if it’s red. Yours isn’t inflamed. You can see there are veins going to it, so you will have a tendency towards hemorrhoids as well.

— I do have hemorrhoids.

Aajonus: Because of the veins in there. But the area would have to be red for it to be inflamed. It is ademic, because it is puffy. But it’s okay. It’s okay right now.

— Why do veins in this area indicate hemorrhoids?

Aajonus: It’s just what I’ve observed. I don’t know why. I didn’t make the hand. (Aajonus laughs.)

— Even these veins?

Aajonus: No, those veins... well, these veins, yes. This hand isn’t as bad. You see how developed these are? So that shows definite hemorrhoid tendency.

— By the way, the raw fat started pulling those down almost immediately.

Aajonus: Yes. Because what happens, as your fecal matter goes out and it’s so toxic, because, as I said, some of it involves solvents. It goes right into the arterial walls, or right into the sphincter tissue and then the surrounding veins have to clean that, so they get the toxicity too. So they start swelling, trying to dilute it, trying to break it down so it doesn’t actually kill the cells. And that’s what hemorrhoids are.

So this area, the base of the palm is very large. That means a person has over-active sex inclination.

— So, we are talking about ovaries, testicles...

Aajonus: But it just means that it’s very overactive, produces a lot of hormones and prostaglandins, those intracellular and extracellular hormones. And you will find that somebody like that has to have sex. And I tell them they need to take care of themselves if they are not in a relationship with a partner, or not with a partner who is very sexual.

Like when some people used to come to me for palm readings, the would say, "How do we look together." And I would look at some of those people and I would say, "She’s very sexual and you’re not." Or he is three, four, five times more sexual than you." And I would look at him and say, "You are going to have to take care of yourself because she is just not that sexual." It’s just like expecting her to be an eagle and she’s a parakeet. It just won’t happen. "So you need to take care of yourself or you need to be open and let him have other relationships. Otherwise there is going to be a lot of problems in this relationship." So with somebody else, if they have that overactive and they are an uptight individual, you need to help relax them of as much tension as you can. So you say, "Listen your sex glands are overactive. You need to take care of yourself." And as long as you are eating the protein, it’s not going to deprive your body of having sex. So you need to have it, even if you are by yourself."

— Masturbation.

Aajonus: Yes. Because it they don’t, those hormones going into the body, they cause irritability and anxiety.

The base of the fingers, that whole mound area, the mound area of each finger at the base, that relates to respiratory system and sinuses. The sinuses are a little bit further up, almost at the last joint of the finger. And this is more the bronchial and the respiratory system.

— What did you say was at the base of the finger?

Aajonus: Respiratory is more here and the sinuses are in the last joint.

— So this is lungs here?

Aajonus: Yes. But the lungs will actually go down a little bit lower, but the tracheal, the bronchials, all of that in here. If that is swollen and inflamed, it means that there is infection in those areas and that person is more likely to have allergies. If it’s white and swollen, the person could have emphysema because they are smokers. They also could have emphysema and poor circulation. That’s white. Or they could have poor circulation, emphysema and it’s not really cleaning out at all, and this whole area could be just collapsing.

— Again, it would be wrinkled skin...

Aajonus: Loose skin with no pads underneath. That shows a very weak constitution up above. A person like that usually is very small up in the chest area. And that’s basically all I look for.

The dryness in the wrists, because the hands are usually most utilized of any limb of the system, a lot more fat goes to that than any other, and because you wash your hands, you dry them, there is constant fat flowing into that area.

The wrist joint is the most lubricated joint and if that area is dry, you know that somebody is really heading toward osteoporosis.

— Let me just say for the tape that if that is the most used joint and it is the most lubricated, then that is an indicator of the state of the other joints. So if the skin is dry there that indicates that there is dryness in the joint.

Aajonus: In this joint, yes. And usually throughout the body. But it’s not always that way. But most of the time, that’s the way it would be.

— And what are the signs of dryness?

Aajonus: Flaky skin, you will it ridged. [sic] Like you do on the elbows. I used to have thick ones. Knees just very thick.

— And that can be a sign of osteoporosis or arthritis.

Aajonus: Arthritis, rheumatism, lupus, candida. And if I look for candida, I look for it in here.

— Why does that indicate candida?

Aajonus: Because this is so active. Usually you have lots of yeast flowing in this area. That’s what I’ve observed.

— If it’s dry?

Aajonus: If it’s dry and inflamed and little splotchy marks. Like see I’m splotchy here. It will be splotchy all way through out.

That’s another thing I wanted to show you. If I looked at somebody else’s hand and they had my hand. I would say a tendency toward anemia because of the little white splotches. It shows that, because of the richness of the ruddiness, it shows that the red blood cells are abundant, but, however, they white blood cells are more predominant. And it looks like the red blood cells aren’t transporting oxygen as well as they need to be.

— How would you tell that about the oxygen.

Aajonus: Because of the white splotches. There is more white than there is red. If it were clean and red... Now this is just today. On other days it will be completely red. So remember that reading of a blood is that day’s reading.

— And completely red would indicate?

Aajonus: High red blood cell count. They are more of an individual that needs to eat the white meats. In mine, I need to eat red and white. That’s another way you can tell.

— And you were saying looking up here?

Aajonus: Well, if this kind of splotches is in here (relative to the forearm) in the skin and it has a dryness, but yet it’s still a little watery and looks like it’s have little sores, irritation, I read that as candida or some other yeast that’s active.

— The only other thing we didn’t get on you is your explanation of the red blood cells in terms of the knees, the production of red blood cells primarily occur in the knee joints...

Aajonus: ... the hip joints, and the femur, the elbows, and the shoulders.

— So the larger bones.

Aajonus: Yes. The more bone marrow, the more red blood cells are going to generate in the marrow. And the red cells pass through that joint. And if that joint is very dry, it’s going to be inflamed. There is always going to be infection in there. It’s always going to damage the young cells, because infection eats at decay. They are eating at the production of red blood cells, then you are going to have weak red blood cells.

— Because it’s contaminating the area that produces them.

Aajonus: Right. Now once a person starts eating a lot of raw fats, they can have an inflammation in that area, but the raw fats will protect the area. So that can happen in ten days, just on the raw fats.

— Will protect it from contamination. And then eventually start to take down the inflammation.

Aajonus: Right. That takes time in a joint area. You are talking about a hardened cartilage and bone that permeates and takes seven years to regenerate all the cells in a bone. In glandular tissue, it’s usually two years. Muscle tissue it’s usually four to six.

— Skin?

Aajonus: How long is always changing. It could take about five to six years to change all the skin.

— Do you find that on this diet people’s wrinkles smooth out?

Aajonus: Yes. Mine were about five times worse than they are now because I lived outdoors and I wasn’t a meat eater and I was wrinkled, like dry. I looked like an Indian.

— And you’ve noticed that the hair can go from gray to dark again based ...

Aajonus: When toxicity is being removed, like from my gonads. That is where I have one deposit left and I’ve got one in my brain. Mineral deposits. And that usually builds into the hair and the nails. So whenever I am throwing it off, my nails will ridge a little bit and my hair will turn gray and then when it stops my hair will turn back and my nails will get smooth again.

— And that’s interesting, because, of course, the nails and the hair are of course the two areas that they use to measure minerals in the body with hair analysis and all of that. And just talk for a second about the hemorrhoids and the veins.

Aajonus: On your right hand you have two very, very large veins in the ball, the sex gland area, and the base right here is where the prostate and rectum fall, and your veins indicate that you would have a tendency toward hemorrhoids.

— More on the right side than the left?

Aajonus: Yes. So you’ve got one good ripe one over here too, but it’s still not as prominent as these two. So you could be moving toward having them on that side.

— What about varicose veins in the hands and arms. Mine seems to be better now, but they sometimes pop up.

Aajonus: Well, that just shows increased circulation.

— When they pop up?

Aajonus: Yes. But varicose veins... I have some in my ankle left.

— You mean the little tiny ones?

Aajonus: Yes. You can have big ones, but the condition usually starts like this. That is the only place in the body where I still have it. And it’s just right here.

— And they are red.

Aajonus: Yes. They are very close to the veins.

— They are almost like capillaries really.

Aajonus: Yes. Basically what they are is swollen capillaries. That’s what varicose veins are. You can have full veins. Like my mother, any diabetic, they just seem to pop out and grow large. It’s the same thing that these capillaries have done, but on a larger scale.

— And that’s caused by?

Aajonus: Usually caused by too much insulin or a low level of insulin. It’s the non-proper utilization of sugars in the body.

— So it doesn’t have anything to do with the cardiovascular system in terms of an occlusion?

Aajonus: It penetrates the walls. No, it’s not necessarily an occlusion.

— So it’s the sugars.

Aajonus: The sugars break down the tissues. The fats go in and try to heal it. And the fats, if they are solid fats, will cause occlusions. But that’s not the cause. The first cause was the penetration, the saturation of the sugars. That’s why you will see the diabetics, the people who are hypoglycemic, get varicose veins quicker than anybody else.

— And why does that cause the veins to stand out then?

Aajonus: Because it keeps swelling. Because the sugar actually penetrates into the tissues. The fat goes in and tries to heal it and soothe it. So the walls get thicker, and thicker, and thicker, and thicker, and thicker.

— So the sugar is actually irritating.

Aajonus: Right. Burning. Like an acid.

— As long as we are on this subject, what about cellulite?

Aajonus: Cellulite, that’s a good one. What happens in cellulite, you’ve got toxicity in the blood and the digestive tract no matter where it could be. Bad fats bind with those. Remember that fats bind with toxins and escort them out of the bowels.

Let’s say somebody is eating too much at one time or exercising. For those two reasons the body doesn’t have the fats necessary to take them and dump them out the bowels. So it has to store them temporarily in muscle tissue or whatever. In fact, store the fat deposits in the muscle tissue or somewhere in the systemusually in the places where it is least active — up here in the fanny or in the waist or right near the intestines. Because that fat is bound with a toxin, the body does not want to take it out and burn it. Because if it burns it, that means that toxin is going to be a free radical. A free radical in my terms. That means a toxin that has no restriction on it, no buffering to it, it’s going to go out and start creating damage.

— But this fat that’s containing it, we are talking about cooked fat in that situation.

Aajonus: Sometimes it will even be good fat if somebody is overeating at one time. That’s why I like to place small meals out, especially for women, because they do not...

— A few small meals a day.

Aajonus: Yes. Lots of small meals. Not few, but small amounts is what I meant. Small amounts of food at one time often throughout the day. In order to avoid that storing of fats and especially if they are active or they are not eating properly, it’s going to store in their body and the body does not want to utilize it, so it’s hard to get rid of it.

— If they are active or inactive?

Aajonus: Active. If they are active, their body is burning up most of the fats as fuel. It still does not want to go in there and burn those up because then it releases. So that’s why it is very difficult to get rid of it. Some women will go ahead and burn it off and get damage. The toxins are released and they will damage muscle tissue, organs.

— But this diet, because she...

Aajonus: This diet will prevent it.

— Will it begin to eliminate the cellulite?

Aajonus: Yes, but that’s one of the last things it will go to to take care of.

— It will take some years.

Aajonus: Yes. Some people it comes off within a year, but it’s a rarity. When anybody asks me, whenever a woman asks me when she can expect that to go away. I tell them that that fat is holding some pretty dangerous toxins. It’s like going to the prison before you have rehabilitated the prisoners and letting them out of jail. You don’t want to do that. So those guys are protecting you. Those fat deposits are friends right now.

— Different degrees of it too. Usually when it’s just on the surface, that’ tends to go quickly. Whereas some people have them deep and thick.

Aajonus: And of course, if there is swelling, retaining water in it too, that means that they really cannot digest the fats properly. Assimilate the fats.

— Let’s talk about edema and retaining water in terms of ankles.

Aajonus: That means that they don’t process their sugars and they don’t process their fats well. The sugars are not breaking down and they are staying acid and they create an acidity that burns tissue, so the body dilutes it to try to soothe it and tries to pull in fats as well. Because the fats aren’t broken down, you still need more fluids, because the fats need to be hydrated because they are drying out because they are cooked, even more fluids are brought it.

Sometimes I’ve seen up to fifty-two times the amount of water that is necessary to hydrate a fat. But because all the enzymes are dead, it cannot draw the fat in, so what the body is surrounded in water.

— But the raw fat is hydrated.

Aajonus: It is enzymes active, always, so it will never dry out until it reaches the skin and starts becoming part of the dead skin. Then it will dry out, but not easily.

— Feet? Same as hands?

Aajonus: Pretty much. I rarely look at the feet unless it’s an elderly person.

— And why in that case?

Aajonus: Let’s say somebody has a liver problem and the hands don’t indicate too many glandular imbalances, and the digestive area in here is okay. It’s not ridging and it’s not collapsed. Then I will say ...

— Around here?

Aajonus: There or on people it’s down around here. I look and see if there is any negative appearance to the area. If not, and they are complaining... It’s a little bit more over here. It’s right in here.

— So if it’s red, it’s inflamed.

Aajonus: Yes. If it’s white and hallow, then it pretty much could be cirrhosed.

— Where is the colon?

Aajonus: It’s all up in this area. The small intestine and colon.

— Palm?

Aajonus: Yes. All through out here. And the heart on the left side. That’s the right.

If you look at acupressure of the hands, you will see that.

— This whole chart more or less.

Aajonus: It’s close to that.

— And the same with the feet.

Aajonus: Yes. So, I had one client who had pain in her liver all the time and it showed very little indication on the hands. Heavy brown area in the iris, but not around the eyes. So she was not typical. Not around the eyes, but in the iris, the whole area was brown. So I just wanted to see, so I asked to see her feet. But very rarely do I see the feet.

— And you looked at?

Aajonus: I looked the glandular liver area.

— Per reflexology. Which is the human body superimposed on both feet.

Aajonus: On the right side.

— So on me for example, do you see anything with the liver? I have these dark circles.

Aajonus: It’s in the right hand. The liver is in the right hand. You see how it is kind of hollow and sunken here? You see where it drops down this side? It’s more smooth. It goes on a slop. This actually drops.

— Yes. I see that. In other words, this slope here.

Aajonus: Yes. That’s normal, but a drop here shows not a very healthy liver. It’s not infected and it’s not swollen, so it’s not cleaning out right now.

— Infected would be white.

Aajonus: No, infected would be red. On here it’s red. In the eye area it’s white. The palm it’s red. So you said it’s not infected, and it’s not... what was the other thing? It’s not edemic because it’s not swollen. Depressed. It’s low. It’s a very underactive liver.

— So, between what you’ve seen in my eyes. Do my eyes indicate liver too?

Aajonus: Well, like I said, you have that cloud going into that area.

— So with everything that you’ve seen now on me, since we are talking about diagnosis, what would you tell me to do. If I were just somebody who came to you and you were going to tell me what to do in terms of the diet, what would you tell me?

Aajonus: I would say... Well, I am saying (Aajonus laughs.) your liver is not working very well. It’s very deficient in proteins. And you need to eat the fats with the proteins for it to work. And you need lots of fats as well to clean out the toxicity that the liver has created.

Because it’s like everything your liver is building it’s connecting it with bile. Every fat that passes from your liver is connected with bile and that is why you are turning yellow and you don’t need bile connected with everything. The liver does it because every time it puts fats out of your liver, it’s a toxic fat, so it puts bile with it so that it won’t be a radical, a free radical.

— So, it’s an overabundance of bile that is being produced.

Aajonus: For the purpose of protecting you.

— So when you say eat fats and proteins.

Aajonus: Together.

— Okay, so you are talking about specific foods again. Butter and beef together. Fish and butter together. Could be coconut and fish. Could be any of the fats. You need a lot of cheese, though, to help absorb all of the bile that has permeated your tissues. That will do it better than butter?

Aajonus: The butter won’t necessarily... the butter with the meat is to give the liver everything it needs to stop mixing bile with it. The cheese and butter together or cheese in general will absorb the bile.

— But always the cheese with butter.

Aajonus: Or some other, you know, juice. If you had it with carrot juice, it would be fine because there is lots of fat. The vitamin A is a fat and it works very well to help bind with the toxins when the cheese absorbs it.

— But butter will do that too.

Aajonus: Yes. And also the cooked starches are very good for that too, to help bind with that bile and other toxins.

— So I can eat plenty of potatoes. I am attracted to potatoes.

Aajonus: But, again, eating a lot at one time, too much starch at one time could take you and your system toward lupus.

— Really?

Aajonus: Because of the amount of bile.

— So do I have an extreme liver problem?

Aajonus: Your liver is not in poor health, it’s just what it’s constructing and putting out in your body is not the greatest.

— Okay, so are there any... This is giving me a feeling for what you... when you actually give a person a program, you verbally tell them these things, and you don’t actually... As with a hepatitis should I eat raw liver?

Aajonus: Yes. It would be very good for you to eat it when you can get it.

— Like Coleman’s raw liver. Right?

Aajonus: Yes. Rocky Junior chicken liver.

— So chicken liver?

Aajonus: Yes. Make sure they are dark and not light and spongy.

— Why?

Aajonus: Because white and spongy means it’s not a healthy liver. It’s just like yours already. It should be dark.

— Have you seen white and spongy liver?

Aajonus: Oh, I have. Even from Coleman.

— So it should be dark brown.

Aajonus: Well, deep red.

— Rocky junior is your favorite poultry?

Aajonus: Yes.

— That’s the name of the brand?

Aajonus: Yes.

— We have Shelton’s. Is that okay?

Aajonus: It’s okay. They raise them pretty much vegetarian and a chicken is not vegetarian, so they are pretty anemic chickens.

— So this one is not vegetarian

Aajonus: No, it isn’t. They get to run around and eat the bugs and everything else.

— They produce turkey too?

Aajonus: No.

— You eat much turkey?

Aajonus: Usually in late spring, not very much in summer because that’s molting season, they produce an enzyme that can cause some complications with some people. I’ve got several highly active clients with very active adrenal glands and hydrochloric acid, they crave it and eat it and do fine, even at the times when that bacteria are very high.

— And what are they craving in the turkey?

Aajonus: I don’t know. There is some kind of enzymes. I don’t know in particular.

— What kind of people

Aajonus: Usually the high adrenalin, high acids types, type A’s. They usually can burn it up and utilize it fine.

— I don’t get the difference right now between raw turkey, and ground turkey and ground chicken. I guess I haven’t had enough of it to know what I am drawn to.

Okay, and would you tell this person, me in this case, to place more emphasis on one kind of food than another or to avoid certain fruits?

Aajonus: Because we are building up the liver, you need to eat beef for a while. Liver couple of times a week. Beef daily and on the days you have liver, that’s your beef.

— So the liver can be twice a week.

Aajonus: And if they have a body like yours... however you don’t show me... You don’t have overactive adrenal glands. So you are not a hyperactive person. However, you look like you are. But that’s because of your vegetarianism, it’s not because of your glandular system. So I would say, because you have low adrenal glands, you are both a white and red meat eater. So you should eat fish every day, to give you good mineral content, to help you get the bile out of your system. That will also help, the minerals and the fats in the fish. The cheese, make sure you eat the cheese after the fish or with the fish. The minerals in the fish and those oils are going to help break down that bile and you want the cheese there to absorb it so you don’t get nauseous.

— Okay, while we are on that subject, just talk about that for a minute. So this matter of mixing proteins and fats, it’s always for that purpose. The fat enables the protein, helps the proteins to detoxify?

Aajonus: No.

— The fat is doing the detoxifying.

Aajonus: Yes. You could make soaps from fats, okay, in conjunction with certain enzymes. So fruits and vegetables juices contain the enzymes to make the solvents with the fats, body soaps, if that is what your body wants to do with it. I can see the bile needs to be cleaned out of your whole system, because it is saturated in all of your tissues. So I know that is going to happen, and that is probably going to happen right away because if it is in your skin and everywhere else, it’s going to be in all of your glands, and your glands are going to be cleaning out first. But I don’t want to encourage the cleaning. If I wanted to just have you clean, then I would have you eat pineapple every day with cream and eat liver every day. Because then we could go in and just...

— At a later stage you can do that.

Aajonus: You don’t need to ever do that. I have experimented so many times. You don’t want to go that way because then you’ve got more discomfort and somebody says, "I don’t want to do this diet anymore," and then they go off. You just let it happen. And when you get ill or discomfort, it happens so rarely that they get right through it. It’s easier to get them through it. But when you just go in there to rush it, let me tell you, you will lose them.

— And raw cream will be okay, because I am attracted to that.

Aajonus: Yes. Absolutely.

— The raw eggs.

Aajonus: Help soothe the tissues.

— But always have the eggs with either vegetable juice or fruit juice.

Aajonus: For you?

— And in general.

Aajonus: I would say that you can have... your body doesn’t necessarily need to have the eggs with the juice. You can have the eggs with the meat, eggs with the fish or the beef. You could have eggs with just about anything.

— The eggs falling into the fat category to combine with the protein.

Aajonus: Correct. Or just count eggs as fat. Never count them as protein for rebuilding.

— So that about that mechanisms, then, the combination. We didn’t really get into this before. The combination of the fat and the protein.

Aajonus: If you don’t eat enough fat with the proteins, the proteins often turn into pyruvate, which is a protein sugar for burning fuel. If you have enough fats with it or you’ve eaten enough fats a couple of hours or an hour before you eat the protein, you may have enough fats already so your body won’t use the protein as a fuel. But I say to be sure, always eat some fat with your protein so your body uses it as a building block rather than burn it up. Because it is going to take awhile. Usually after somebody eats their protein, that’s when they are least hungry unless they are really starving for it. And then if they eat protein by itself, they can be hungry in an hour if it’s fish. But usually if somebody is eating beef it will be the longest period they will go without eating something else besides honey afterwards.

— And the purpose of the honey?

Aajonus: The enzymes so you can digest it.

— So it’s good to eat honey with all of these proteins.

Aajonus: Everything.

— So you could add honey to all these combinations.

Aajonus: Correct. But I usually tell people to take the honey after if they prefer that.

— Just the straight honey.

Aajonus: Yes.

— Or the honey butter mix.

Aajonus: Yes, if they want.

— So, again, we are almost there. When you don’t have the fat in combination with the protein, you are using the protein for immediate fuel. Is that what you are saying?

Aajonus: Sometimes, yes. Let’s say it takes a while to digest it, some of it. The fish will be digested and go through right away. So you need fat with that fish, because that fish, a lot of that fish will turn into pyruvate. With the fat you are inhibiting that because the body will use the fat as fuel and not the protein and not the amino acids.

— So this kind of chemical combination is for the purpose of using the protein to generate tissue.

Aajonus: Right. To build your system

— The fat is detoxifying. The protein building.

Aajonus: No. The fat fuels. The fat does three things equally. It burns as fuel. It detoxes. And it lubricates.

— In this case, it is burning as fuel, primarily, when you mix it with the beef.

Aajonus: Correct.

— And you have it with your enzymatic raw fruits or vegetables, it’s basically detoxifying.

Aajonus: Well, it depends. If you have it with fruit, it will be burned as a fuel. If you have it with vegetable juices, it’s likely to be either a soap or a fuel. So if you have the fat along with the protein and some fruit or vegetable juice, it will all be protected. The protein will be protected from being used.

— But you wouldn’t want to have fruit juice with the meat.

Aajonus: Some people can. Like I say, my girlfriend in Paris can eat strawberries, anything after the meat and she craves it. Some people can do it. So don’t make laws. As a general rule, I tell people not to eat sweet fruits or acidic fruits, except for tomatoes once in a while. With beef. But even in my book I warn against that.

— And what would be... On this diet, do you get the conventional bad food combination signs, like gas? What would be the sign of it?

Aajonus: Gas.

— For a long time, I was able to virtually produce gas, and since I have been eating this diet, it’s changed.

Aajonus: Because you are getting the nutrients you need.

— And so a person that is like that, that can produce gas constantly, what is that generally coming from in your experience? Because I’ve run into a number of people who have that.

Aajonus: Well, it just shows a biochemic ...

— Indigestion. Incomplete digestion.

Aajonus: The juices that are being made to break down the food and causing a bad gaseous reaction, toxic gas.

— And why does that suddenly change when you start eating the raw fat?

Aajonus: Because the raw fat doesn’t create those toxins that create the gas, those bad chemical reactions.

— So this is the kind of guidelines that you would give. So basically there is a lot of ... the principals, there are basically four or five principals and then you shape them based on the diagnosis.

Aajonus: Well, there are about twelve principals. But as you get into it, you will see. When you start reading and you concentrate on the remedy section and you start going over what we’ve talked about here and you add what I say in there with that and then you will see, it will come together. I don’t think it’s going to take you two years. I think it will take about six months.

— Can I go to the questions now? I’d like to take the last day and maybe leave a half hour at the beginning or the end for you to see Sally and just look in her eyes and just use her.

Aajonus: Sally and Rose, bring them both.

— Just Sally. Rose is not ready to change her diet. And then I’d like to get you to talk for as long as you want, just recipes. I had a question about male and female problems, menopause, prostate. That area. Then the difficulty of candida, how difficult it can be to reverse. Epstein Bar and chronic fatigue. Here is one you can answer right now. The mother. Apple cider vinegar. The mother. Tell me about that?

Aajonus: Well, the mother is the core of the fermentation process.

— But what does it mean?

Aajonus: Have you seen the mother? Do you know what the mother looks like?

— The mother what?

Aajonus: In vinegar. It’s the filmy... it looks like a filmy membrane and that’s the core of the production of the fermentations for apple cider vinegar.

— How do they make it? You take apples and...

Aajonus: Apple juice and just ferment it.

— Do they implant bacteria?

Aajonus: No, just let it sit.


— You were saying the core of what?

Aajonus: I said there is always a place in the juice at the bottom where the mother starts growing. It’s like, it’s like a mycelium in a mold that just forms a center and a membrane, and that’s called the mother.

— And what do they do with that?

Aajonus: Well, the mother seems to always be active and keep the vinegar active, the bacteria active in it. Once you take the mother out, it starts going flat. So most vinegars are filtered. And if they are not just filtered, they are also distilled.

— That’s heated.

Aajonus: Yes. But there will be a lot out there that are filtered, and then they go flat.

— So, it’s got to say, "raw, unfiltered, and unheated."

Aajonus: Yes. Well they call them unpasteurized usually.

— I have been using the Bragg’s.

Aajonus: Yes. And they have Bragg’s that’s also filtered, but maybe not. I don’t think Bragg even lets them do that to theirs.

— And Spectrum you like I noticed. You mentioned Spectrum.

Aajonus: Yes.

— One area we haven’t touched on much and I had the question, how to eat grains and how often. We talked a little bit on the phone from up north about germinating grains, but my sense of it is that ... because I have to really get over this hump, and a lot of vegetarians do, because millet, brown rice, basmati rice, it’s sort of a core of a lot of the meals...

Aajonus: Because that’s where you are going for a lot of your balanced proteins, your complete proteins. But you can’t get much of it.

— You don’t eat much grain — at all.

Aajonus: No. Before I started eating meat, I ate germinated grains every day. Three or four times a day.

— Before you discovered all of this.

Aajonus: Before I discovered the meat. I was a raw fooder. But I ate lots of raw grains, germinated grains. But I started eating the meat.

— No advantage.

Aajonus: Well, let me say this. One client there was an advantage. He constantly had digestive problems. And when he would eat the germinated grains, he would mix the basmati rice, the short, sweet rice (pearl rice), the rye, and then I would have him put raw egg after he would germinate that altogether overnight. And he would use it the next day. Pour it off and rinse it, and then drain it again. Then he would mix raw egg, avocado and a little bee pollen and a little royal jelly. That’s the mix that I perceived for him. And it worked.

— For what?

Aajonus: He would get stomach acid. Acid that would just burn his stomach and he couldn’t sleep at night. And so I found the two things that worked for that. That mix, and coconut.

— Coconut cream? Juicing it?

Aajonus: Well, not only coconut cream, but actual whole coconut.

— Just eating it without peeling the brown off.

Aajonus: Yes, you could eat it without peeling the brown off. It’s just for juicing that you peel the brown off.

— So there’s nothing wrong with putting coconut on your fruit salad or whatever.

Aajonus: No.

— Okay, so grains. We don’t have to be concerned with grains.

Aajonus: You are eating them cooked. Breads. The rice, rice cakes.

— That’s going to free up a lot of containers in the kitchen. (Aajonus laughs.)

Aajonus: Mine went down to two jars. I’ve got like two jars in there mixed, and I make germinated... I get a craving for them a couple of times a year, and that’s it. The rice. The wild rice with the long grain pearl rice and the small grain rice.

— Brown?

Aajonus: No, the sweet.

— Again you want the gluten.

Aajonus: Yes. However, there is heavy gluten in the wild rice.

— Isn’t there gluten in brown rice too?

Aajonus: Yes. It’s got some in it. But the flavor, I love it. It tastes like crackers to me.

— I like basmati. So do you just cook it up?

Aajonus: No. No. No. I germinate it.

— By just soaking it overnight and pouring off the water.

Aajonus: And then I like mixing it with egg and honey and maybe some cream.

— You just soak it one night.

Aajonus: Yes. Just one night. At least twelve hours.

— It’s still a little crunchy.

Aajonus: That’s what I love. (Aajonus laughs.) It tastes kind of like crackers to me.

— And you just mix egg, honey and cream in with it.

Aajonus: Yes. Or I won’t put the cream in. I will just mix the egg and honey.

— And so you’ve got the whole grains in there and you just eat it. I will have to try that.

Aajonus: And I chew it well.

— So it doesn’t hurt to do that.

Aajonus: Well, it’s rough on the digestive tract, but I still crave it once in a while and I think that there are some enzymes that I get from it that I wouldn’t get from anything else.

— So you think that there are some enzymes that grains produce that meat doesn’t? And fish?

Aajonus: Yes. But I only need them a couple of times a year.

— I guess you get more in touch with your cravings as you get cleaned out.

Aajonus: Yes.

— Then the other thing is, in terms of the amount of beef, I have to get over that one too. Because I feel like I could eat three times a day.

Aajonus: Go ahead.

— Just go ahead.

Aajonus: Absolutely go ahead.

— You talk about eating pounds of it.

Aajonus: Yes.

— You would think you are just clogging the circulation.

Aajonus: (Aajonus laughs.) If it were cooked, yes. Lots of uric acid, everything.

— I mean I had beef, I had porterhouse for breakfast. I could eat sushi for lunch and I could have ground beef for dinner.

Aajonus: That would be great. Let me tell you, you’ve got fourteen years. You remind me of Owanza when she started eating it.

(Aajonus laughs.) Seven pounds in twenty-four hours. Seven and a half pounds in twenty-four hours! She ate that whole seven and half pound filet mignon.

— Yon were never a vegetarian like that were you?

Aajonus: Yes. I was. Six years.

— You ate no animal products at all?

Aajonus: Very little. I did have some cheese and when I started going nuts in the dessert in the summer, I got some goat milk.

— Raw goat milk. Where do you find that?

Aajonus: Stueve’s makes it. But right now Stueve’s are kidding.

— Kidding?

Aajonus: They have the kids, and then they are milking and when the kids are getting the milk, you don’t get any. So there is very little.

— I didn’t mean that. I meant the raw goat cheddar, which I love. I can’t find it unsalted.

Aajonus: No.

— Can’t find it.

Aajonus: Because it’s so strong in the animal enzyme. It stinks. It reeks, so most people don’t buy it.

— And what does the salt do?

Aajonus: The salt kills those enzymes. It destroys the enzymes. It dehydrates and changes the taste.

— I love salted goat cheddar.

Aajonus: Just eat some butter with it. It will be okay. And anyway, you could use a little bit of salt because of your jaundice. It will help break down the bile that has permeated in your tissues. I have only recommended it for five people out of probably a thousand.

— But when you say that, you mean sea salt.

Aajonus: Yes.

— You don’t mean Bragg’s or Bronner’s.

Aajonus: No. No. No. No. No. Straight salt.

— Seaweed?

Aajonus: No. It’s still not the same. Most of the time they use sea salt in the cheeses.

— Well, they almost always say salt and if it’s sea salt, they almost always put sea. So it’s generally just salt.

Aajonus: Then you had just better eat a lot of butter with it.

— But it’s okay, then, for me now to use sea salt on the food in general?

Aajonus: I would say about three grains every other day.

— Three grains? Very little. Okay. And the same with the dairy, and the cream, and the kefir. You can’t overdo it.

Aajonus: That’s right.

— And the butter, the same.

Aajonus: Yes. But most people who go on this diet pig out for thirty days. They just eat and eat and eat. And then after the thirty days, when their body is saying, "Oh my God, thank God for all of that!" And it’s done its basic getting the body leveled out to where it can say, "Hey, okay, now I don’t have to... " (and Aajonus pants.) I wonder how this is going to sound when you type this stuff? I am saying very few words, and lots of motions. (Aajonus laughs.)

— When we transcribe it, we say, "Ecstatic sounds."

Aajonus: Right. Massive arm movements.

— That’s great. And cheese, you can’t overdo it on the cheese either?

Aajonus: Yes. You can. By itself, you can. Not with the butter, you really can’t, but if you were eating two rice cakes... I suggest you only have one at a time.

— Why?

Aajonus: Because it’s a lot of starch, so what is going to start happening is you are going to start building a waist, because not all of that can be eliminated and taken care of in the amount of time that it’s going to digest.

— Same with potatoes.

Aajonus: Yes.

— And eat one, and then a little later some more.

Aajonus: Yes.

— And in general not too much starch for most people on this diet.

Aajonus: It depends. If they are hyperactive or they have got a lot of hormones going, they just need it in small amounts often.

— And then eventually they would lose the craving for that as they balanced out.

Aajonus: Yes. It could be years though.

— Small amounts often. A couple of times a day?

Aajonus: Well, it depends. For a hyperactive individual with high adrenal activity and let’s say they are physically active as well. They work out. I will tell them to eat probably five times a day small amounts of starch, unless they are actually bodybuilders, then they can eat more.

— Now why would they have to do it five times a day? Because they are not going to have to worry about putting it on as excess fat if they are that active, right?

Aajonus: Because of the amount of toxins that they build up and the amount of adrenalin that will go in and damage their nervous system. It’s better that they have some starch and fat in there ready to help them anytime it becomes an excess, the adrenalin becomes more than the fat. You don’t want that to happen.

— But I thought the working out process would deplete the adrenalin.

Aajonus: It does, but the adrenalin still burns. It’s still active with fats or sugars. And sugars can come from starches, but their amount of energy to burn is like two and a half times what it takes a fat to burn. I can use a molecule of fat or one molecule of fat, it takes two and a half times that of sugar or starch to burn that same amount of energy. So adrenalin burns up a massive amount of sugars, quickly. So, if the adrenalin needs something to work with, it doesn’t work by itself. That’s why it goes in and leaches from the nervous system, if there is nothing left in the muscles that it can get to quickly.

So I have those people eat small amounts often, unless they are a body builder. They need the storage, they need those storages stored in there, starch, fat stored in their body. Absolutely.

— Can’t you overdo it on the oils? Like is there any limit to olive oil or flaxseed oil?

Aajonus: Yes. But you will lose a taste for them right away.

— And you don’t think flaxseed oil is important on this diet. Because, you know, everybody is touting flaxseed oil.

Aajonus: I would say for people who have brown areas in their eyes. Definitely. To prevent cancer.

— But is it preventing cancer in any more efficient way than any of the other fats?

Aajonus: Yes, it’s a little bit more soapy. It’s a little bit more slick.

— So two tablespoons a day is okay?

Aajonus: Yes.

— And what about for the average person or for me, for example, of olive oil, flaxseed oil.

Aajonus: Go for what appeals to you. There is no sense eating flax oil that you don’t enjoy. If you like the taste of cod liver oil. That’s what it tastes like, that’s fine. But otherwise, there’s no need to ...

— And there is no such thing as raw cottage cheese.

Aajonus: You can make it though. Ginger is great for digestive problems. Any time I have, like that guy with indigestion... Ginger had a tendency to burn him though, because he has an acid system. But I have a lot of people with digestive problems. And I say, "When you have the liver, to make sure you digest it well, blend some ginger in with the liver.

— But never make ginger tea. You don’t want to heat it.

Aajonus: No. No. No. Juice it or put it in a garlic press and press it.

— And garlic as much as you like. You have to understand that some people don’t eat it and if you are mixing with people who don’t eat it and don’t like the smell, it’s a sociological thing. (Inaudible.) getting my energy, false energy, from these heating food stuffs like garlic, ginger and cayenne, because I like them.

Aajonus: It’s irritation is what it is.

— If you can handle it, cayenne is good too, isn’t it?

Aajonus: No. Cayenne is a dangerous, dangerous element. It burns the intestines.

— Now when I say cayenne I mean jalapenos, cerranos, harbanero peppers.

Aajonus: The fresh ones are fine. But not dried because then that acidity... there are no enzymes to protect the volume of fluids that can be absorbed, or the fats. See, they have a natural propensity toward fat. That is why Mexicans eat them, because they eat so much lard and it helps break down the lard, because it searches for fat. Vegetarian eating that stuff, they just...

— They just (Inaudible.) the Mexicans.

Aajonus: Yes. But still, it searches for it. Vegetarians don’t get very much fat and they don’t have any meat at all, so what happens is that dried jalapeno pepper goes in there and burns the intestines, and what happens is the villi shrink up over the years. Just like teeth grinding down.

— But the fresh jalapenos.

Aajonus: They have lots of enzymes that the body can use to call out fats from anywhere, and fluids. So that’s wonderful. It stimulates hormone production. So the garlic, the ginger, hot peppers, onion, all of those stimulate hormone production. And they are great. And you need them because of your liver condition.

— To stimulate...?

Aajonus: ... hormonal production. Your liver produces hormones. Clears out glycogen. It can do so many things.

— Okay, so fresh. Always think fresh. Again, it’s the same principal of drying something, even if you are drying it at a low temperature, you are taking all of the liquid out of it and with that you are killing enzymes.

Aajonus: Yes. You destroy most of your enzymes.

— The drying process also. Okay, well [Recipe] here’s what I made the other night. I just made a fresh raw salsa for the meat. Then I took fresh corn off the cob and set that aside. Then I took celery, onion, garlic, ginger, jerusalem artichoke, jalapenos and processed them in the food processor so it had a salsa like consistency, added a little apple juice, just to give it a little liquidity, and I think I put a little honey in there. And then I took the whole corn and mixed in on through. And boy, we sat down and it blew both of our minds. (Aajonus laughs.) One of the great gourmet dishes of all time. And I took the meat and made a pate out of the steak and made meat balls out of it, and just surrounded the plate with meat balls and put the salsa in the middle. What would you season it with if you wanted to make steak tartar. You could use garlic, you could use ginger, lime and lemon juice.

Aajonus: Not for beef.

— No lime and lemon juice for beef.

Aajonus: Not good. Because the beef will go into a fuel, be made into a fuel because it’s a fruit. Fruit burns fat as fuel. So if you are already mixing the fruit with the meat, it’s going to turn into a fuel, not a building block.

— Okay, but pineapple won’t do that. Because...

Aajonus: Because of the bromelin in it.

— It prevents the fruit from making use of the protein in that way.

Aajonus: Yes.

— So how do you season your meat when you make a pate?

Aajonus: Well, I will use red onion...

— What did you think of that recipe then?

Aajonus: You come from a background of heavy spices, because I am not a heavy spice individual. It always turned my stomach. But it’s a great recipe for people who have come off of vegetarianism like Owanza. Loved that spicy stuff. And she still loves it. Hot peppers all the time.

— Different constitutions.

Aajonus: Yes. Completely different. So, you know, that I can tell it would be a great recipe for people. And I could not construct one like that, because I did macrobiotic diet for a very brief period of time, a year and a half, and because of my stomach surgery, I had to eat it very simple. I couldn’t have all the spices that everybody else...

— Well, macrobiotic isn’t’ very spicy.

Aajonus: Well, some of them in this town would get pretty spicy. And that’s where I learned it — in this town.

— So what would you do for a meat pate.

Aajonus: If it’s liver I use ginger and horseradish. Fresh horseradish. That’s another hormone stimulator, and it’s also good because it’s hot. I will take very slender [Recipe] slices of the horseradish. Otherwise in a food processor it won’t mince very finely. And I will go the same thing with the ginger. Very paper thin slices so when I put it in the processor it really grinds it up so I don’t have big chunks to burn my tongue. And I put those in with the liver and I will blend it up.

— Or even raw beef.

Aajonus: When I make a beef what I will do is make something like a chili. I will take tomato, hot fresh pepper, I will grind down some pumpkin seeds into a powder. [Recipe] It gives it like a bean flavor, like I am having chili. Fresh raw pumpkin seeds. So I will pour some melted butter down with it. And the hot pepper together with some tomato in it and blend that up, so I’ve got like a chili sauce and either put onion or garlic in it or just dice the onion up and put that with the meat. Then I’ll mix the whole sauce together and put it on top of spaghetti.

— Can you have pasta with meat?

Aajonus: Yes.

— So that’s not a bad food combination with the meat being raw. A lot of things that meat wouldn’t have gone with before. What about meat and bread?

Aajonus: Meat and bread are fine. I have lots of people eating sandwiches. That’s the way I get them to eat turkey, raw ground turkey or chicken.

— You could even put lettuce in there too.

Aajonus: Yes. I have them make raw mayonnaise.

— That was my next question. You are psychic. Tell me your mayonnaise, so I could start doing that tonight. [Recipe] It’s just butter and egg and a few drops of lemon juice and about a half a teaspoon of vinegar. How much butter, how much egg.

Aajonus: If I am just serving myself and not going to refrigerate it, because the egg lasts only twenty-four hours, and it doesn’t last well in the refrigerator. So usually only make enough to use at that time. So I use one egg, a quarter stick of butter, and then about a half teaspoon of vinegar and about three or four drops of lemon or lime juice.

— And just throw all of that in the blender.

Aajonus: Yes. You put it in small canning jars, the four ounce canning jar and you blend it and then you can put it in the refrigerator for a little bit because if you do that it will solidify it a bit, or you just use not the room temperature butter. You use a more hardened butter, not solid, but so it blends with the egg and it will be thick pretty quickly. Butter, egg, vinegar, lemon juice or lime.

— So you foresee a little book of recipes.

Aajonus: Yes. Probably within three months.

— That’s pretty quick.

Aajonus: Oh definitely. Because this guy wants to have the whole thing shot and done in two months. That means to get the whole thing packaged together, I have to have that book ready for when orders start coming in.

— That brings up an interesting point now, when somebody tells you, "I’m okay now, I’m going to go back to eating a little differently."

Aajonus: That’s their choice. I’ve got nothing to do with it.

— But you certainly give them your opinion about that.

Aajonus: Well, I say, you take a look at how you feel and know that you might go downhill, back to where you were, so I would say try to keep in about fifty, sixty percent of your diet to raw foods. I just give that suggestion.

— Good. Or even if they just go off once in a while and eat a cooked meal, if they come back to it. How did you come up, or Owanza, how did the coma formula come about? It’s basically the honey and butter, right?

Aajonus: Right. Well, I got the call about Mike being in a coma, so right away I called her and I said...

— Why did you call her?

Aajonus: Because she’s psychic and I was only using this at the time. I refused to use my psychic ability, because I didn’t trust it for somebody’s life.

— It’s like radionics. My pendulum lies to me.

Aajonus: Right. So I called her and I said, "Okay, I know that I have to get the butter in his body to clean out the system. I have to get enzymes going in his system. I need to get meat in his system." And she said, "Well, the thing that I suggest you do..." Because he’s not awake to eat. How do I do this? Do I get them to put a tube into his stomach? She said, "Put honey and butter. Mix equal portions and put it under his tongue. Just let it sit in his mouth and he will absorb it. And do it every hour." I said, "Well, what happens if I do it every twenty, forty minutes?" She said, "That’s fine. That’s even better."

— But it could have been another kind... If you could make something that would dissolve under the tongue that was basically a fat, enzyme combination it would probably have done something similar, right?

Aajonus: No, because those enzymes can be made into any kind of enzymes. The fruit enzyme is either made into an enzyme that burns or digests.

— So honey is unique.

Aajonus: Yes. Honey can be made into anything. It’s like a shape- shifter.

— Yes. And would you say the royal jelly falls into that category too?

Aajonus: No. When I eat royal jelly, I only eat it with meat.

— Why?

Aajonus: Because it has tremendous amounts of growth hormones. The queen bee eats it.

— Why with meat then?

Aajonus: And the drones eat it as well, because they have to be virile to impregnate her. Well the drones eat it while they are making it for the queen. But it adds hormones, so it helps that meat come back to life because it’s lost a lot of its enzymes, its active enzymes.

— Even the raw meat.

Aajonus: You have to let it sit for thirty-five days to make sure it is disease free. That’s the law. It has to sit in a cold storage for thirty- six days before they can even sell it.

— Cold storage and then they test it.

Aajonus: Yes. Something like that. You can look at it and tell if there is disease if it has that much time.

— (Inaudible.) ... parasite eggs or something like that.

Aajonus: There are all kinds of things that you can spot in that amount of time. So it has to be aged.

— As an enhancement of the meat. Do you do that often, the royal jelly?

Aajonus: I used to do it all the time, but then I lost my instinct for it, so now I do it a couple of times a month.

— What does it do for you? Just give you an energy?

Aajonus: Well, I could feel that it would help me reproduce cells. I even looked younger when I used more of it. But it just got to be where it would burn my throat, and so I just stopped using it.

— So, if I wanted to use a tablespoon with beef. Just put it on the beef?

Aajonus: You won’t even utilize a tablespoon. If you used about that much.

— A tiny little bit.

Aajonus: Yes. That’s all it takes. That stuff is so potent.

— And bee pollen, do you have that too?

Aajonus: I only use the bee pollen if I have any kind of discomfort or pain, especially tooth pain, because the hydrochloric acid is constantly dumping into my mouth because it was severed from my stomach, so my body, because the hydrochloric acid doesn’t dump much in there, to get it to my food quicker, it takes it and dumps it to my salivary glands. So it’s fucked my teeth, and that, along with the chemotherapy and the radiation. So I get... my teeth rot very easily. At my age... all my brothers have lost their teeth, but because I am on a good diet is the only reason I haven’t lost mine. I should have lost mine when I was about thirty.

— So it’s a hereditary kind of thing.

Aajonus: Well, my father had his, still has some of his and he’s ...

— Well, why have your brothers lost your teeth? They are not that old.

Aajonus: Well, they didn’t eat well. Junk food all their lives.

— The bee pollen, do you rub it in?

Aajonus: No. I mix it with milk and cream and honey and then I drink it as a pain reliever. I have it in the book too. It’s there, as a pain reliever. And it’s great for that. But, bee pollen, I will use, like I say in the book, for people who have allergies. It helps them at this time of the year. That formula is great.

— The honey is unique and the butter is unique too in its way.

Aajonus: Very.

— What if you put avocado and honey under his tongue. You don’t think...

Aajonus: No. Avocado is much more complex to break down. It’s not an animal fat. The butter is an animal fat. It’s already prepared for us. Any cell can absorb it and utilize it. Any part of our system can absorb it and utilize it. The avocado, most of it has to go through the digestive tract first.

— So plant fats are harder to break down.

Aajonus: Yes. Almost impossible.

— Again, it’s because we don’t think raw that we don’t know that.

Aajonus: Well, not only that, we’re not vegetarians.

— Great. Thank you for another session.

Aajonus: You’re welcome. So you have your list of questions today? (Aajonus laughs.)

— What you found in people that smoke grass as a salient characteristic healthwise.

Aajonus: Well, marijuana has at least sixteen times the tar of a regular cigarette. So smoking one joint is like smoking a whole pack of cigarettes, tarwise.

— Really. Even though it’s an herb.

Aajonus: So is tobacco.

— Tobacco there is two hundred things they add to it.

Aajonus: Yes. Right. They add a bit to it, yes, so it has other chemicals in it. But it’s still the tar, the fat in it. And there is a lot more fat in marijuana than there is in a tobacco leaf. And that tar is actually tar because you’ve cooked it. So it’s a transfatty acid basically. And you what happens to trans-fatty acids. And you are talking about sixteen hundred degrees burning. They all bond together. They don’t separate well, so it becomes a plastic, a very hard plastic. It doesn’t dissolve. You can’t do much with it anymore. You can’t lubricate with it. You can’t burn it. So it clogs up the system. Then your body has to take other nutrients that it has, it has to leach them out of the system, try to utilize some kind of fat that you put into your body that is not a trans-fatty acid already and try to make a solvent to break that down.

— And that’s where the soaps and the raw fats will break that down over time.

Aajonus: Correct. But for some people who have smoked marijuana over a thirty-year period, I suggest that they make a tea with it and it helps detox them.

— Really? Drink the tea. Does it get them high?

Aajonus: Yeah, it does. But there is no down to it, because there are no monoxides, and they usually don’t get the munchies as bad.

— So even eating it then, because in the sixties we used to make brownies.

Aajonus: Yes, but that is cooking it again. So again the tars go into trans-fatty acids.

— But what about heating it when you make a tea.

Aajonus: Well, no, the way I make the tea is you take a six or eight ounce canning jar and you fill it up half way with the raw marijuana, and you blend that on low for two minutes, medium for two minutes, high for two minutes, take it off, you pound it down, you unscrew and jiggle to get all the marijuana off of the blades, and then you put it on again for two minutes on low, two minutes on medium and two minutes on high. And it pulverizes it into a powder.

— That’s without any liquid in there.

Aajonus: Right. Then you put distilled water in there so it comes up to about maybe a half inch from the top of the jar. Actually a little bit less than that, just as long as you have two ounces of room at the top, so about three-quarters of an inch. You put a tablespoon of raw, unsalted vinegar in it. That helps break down the THC and everything. And you put the lid on, you blend that for two minutes on low, two minutes on medium, two minutes on high and after that you put your hand on it and let it blend until it gets very warm, but not hot to where it makes your hand uncomfortable. Then you take the blades off and you rinse those off, and you put a cap on it and let it sit on the counter for four or five or eight hours. And then you blend it again. And you do that five times in a forty-eight-hour period and it completely breaks it down. Releases the THC and everything.

So when it goes into your body, your body will be able to utilize it properly.

— How does that detox it?

Aajonus: What it does is it uses the tars, its natural fats into a solvent to break up the solvents that exist of its own likeness.

— While satisfying a craving.

Aajonus: Yes. Exactly.

— But if a person could avoid that, it would be best to just do the diet and get it out with raw fats.

Aajonus: It won’t do it as quickly. Because it’s such a high temperature.

— No, I mean, if a person could just quit smoking altogether and detox with the raw diet.

Aajonus: No, I am saying that if they eat the marijuana it will do it better. It will assure that it will happen. Those tars are very difficult, because they burn at twelve hundred to sixteen hundred to eighteen hundred degrees when you are smoking it. The ash gets that hot.

— More difficult than a smoker who has been smoking for twenty years?

Aajonus: Yes, it can because your tars are much thicker and they come in all at one time, within a few minutes. So it can block it up even harder. So the people who have been habitual user of it should have that to help break it down.

— For how long?

Aajonus: Six months to nine months.

— Once a day, drink that?

Aajonus: No, they can have it whenever they want. If they need to withdraw from smoking it, then they should have it once a day.

— Because that’s probably about two hundred and fifty dollars' worth of grass to make it.

Aajonus: But if they have a teaspoon a day, if it’s good grass...

— Oh, I see, you stretch that out.

Aajonus: You stretch that out. That could last you two months.

— And that leads to the next question. What about other kinds of drug users? Coke and so on that come here. Have you seen many of those people?

Aajonus: I’ve had quite a few.

— What can you say about that?

Aajonus: Well, like I say in the book, there are different things that help extract those things out of the system. Just look up whatever is in there.

— Kefir versus cream, when to use one over the other. Or course, the kefir is a fermented product and the cream isn’t.

Aajonus: Well, the kefir, if you have the proper kefir that has the bulgaricus, coccus and the acidophilus, you have the three different strains of bacteria which break down protein, the fats, and the carbohydrates and sugars. All. So everything is predigested and easier to utilize. So if anybody has digestive problems, acid stomach, is elderly and doesn’t absorb nutrients well, it’s best that they have that.

Stueve’s uses gelatin in it, which I don’t like, but the fats chelate with it don’t really allow it to be absorbed. They will also bind with free radicals.

— What will?

Aajonus: The gelatin in raw kefir, when it’s fatty bound. The only thing I don’t like about it, it causes some storing and some swelling, retention of water.

— The kefir does?

Aajonus: Right, because of the gelatin, in some people, mostly women.

— But Stueve is the only one know of...

Aajonus: That makes it raw. I had a talk with them in January. They called and asked me for my suggestions about what other binder could be used and I suggested agar-agar would be better than the animal product because it is cellulose and we really can’t digest it anyway, so it just passes through us, rather than having to get it in the blood, like the gelatin will get in the blood.

— What about kuzu or even cornstarch.

Aajonus: You are dealing with a grain and that can get into our blood. But when it’s actually a vegetable matter, it’s literally impossible for us to absorb it when it’s with raw kefir.

— Because of the binding.

Aajonus: Right. The grain would be absorbed.

— So the grain wouldn’t be bound by the fat in the kefir.

Aajonus: It would but it would get into the blood, whereas the cellulose, rarely will it ever pass into the blood out of the digestive tract. It will just stay in the digestive tract.

— Is it too big to pass through the walls?

Aajonus: Yes. It’s so complex the body really can’t break it down easily.

— So that’s good. Somebody that has just basically gone off of bowel cleansing or colonics and they are finding out that they are depleted and not digesting.

Aajonus: Boy, they need it.

— So kefir would be good and plenty of it, two or three times a day.

Aajonus: Two quarts a day would be good for them.

— I have somebody like that right now. A lot of the things I am asking you are along the lines of weaning a person off what they are doing and gradually introducing the raw diet. Maybe starting with the raw dairy and then going to the meat. Because I just see that it’s going to have to be that way for some people. And then the cream on the other hand, it’s all the things that we’ve talked about. Using cream to nurture the body, to soothe the body...

Aajonus: And people who have digestive problems, though, you don’t want them to have it every day. Every other day is better because it makes their intestines very sluggish. It’s so hard to digest in somebody that doesn’t break it down.

— What if you mix it with unheated honey?

Aajonus: It still is difficult — causes a sagging. The kefir is fine because it’s predigested.

— Don’t give cream every day to people with digestive problems.

Aajonus: Every other day is okay, but not every day with cream.

— Anything more about cream? When you’ve found it particularly useful?

Aajonus: No. It’s useful just about any time except for that.

— I have some people who are getting more interested in this. A friends asked me don’t animals store toxins in their fat, as all vertebrates do. So what happens when we eat that fat?

Aajonus: As long as it’s not cooked.


— So you were saying that...

Aajonus: ... the fat retains the toxins in a state in the bowels or in the small intestines and it’s never released into the blood. So it just passes right through.

— And in addition it is absorbing more toxins from our own body as we eat it.

Aajonus: If it doesn’t have more than it can handle.

— Of course that’s another reason for organic meat.

Aajonus: Yes.

— It’s not really organic beef, even Coleman. It’s more natural beef, right. Because they can attest yet...

Aajonus: Right.

— So even if they are eating pesticide grain.

Aajonus: If there is some pesticide in it, it will mostly store in the glandular tissue.

— But in terms of eating the raw liver, still the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

Aajonus: I just had it again today and it’s never given me a bad reaction like the regular stuff has. I think that the cows, if they have a little of pesticides in their grain or in their feed, they are not getting enough that the fat in their body can’t handle and throw it off. So in a naturally grown animal that’s not pumped up with hormones and antibiotics...

— Is there anything else that you suggest then for somebody that is having digestive problems that are stemming from doing colonics and so on. They have depleted their hydrochloric acid and so on and so forth.

Aajonus: They need to stop doing it, period.

— Beets? Beet juice?

Aajonus: Beet juice, yes, will add to the hydrochloric acid. But it’s usually not hydrochloric acid that is the problem. The intestinal flora and villa are the things that are just eaten away. Sugar does the same thing, processed sugars. I don’t care if it’s molasses, maple syrup or any of them.

— So unheated honey and kefir would be a really good combination.

Aajonus: Excellent.

— Two quarts a day of kefir. That’s not too much. Okay. I was just curious. How long did you think it would take for my liver to clean up and these dark circles to go?

Aajonus: Let me see your eyes. You are starting to clean it already. It’s infected. This goes all the way out into the lymph. Probably about nine months to a year and three months.

— You have mentioned a couple of times that it takes seven years. My impression was that for all the cells in the body to be replaced, it takes seven years. Is that what you were getting at?

Aajonus: Yes.

— So, if that is the case, where do we get the figure in the twenties and so on for a complete recycling of tissue?

Aajonus: Because it takes about five to seven generations for each RNA and DNA to improve to keep it going up. It’s like a deformed cell is going to create a deformed cell, and if you are nurturing it, it can build its whole system up again. It can evolve to a better state and it takes...

It’s like when I did experiments with my animals. Pottenger took them only so many generations, and he found that they would get consistently better or consistently worse. I think he went four generations. And I’ve taken them as far as seven, and then they’ve gotten to a complete state of health where there was never any discomfort or disease.

— Do you know Gabriel Cousins? He is a holistic M.D. He wrote the book called The Rainbow Diet, and he makes a point in there about people who are strict vegetarians or fruitarians. He talks about the fact that the cell walls get very thin and that therefore, depending upon the environment that you live in and the kind of lifestyle you lead, you really can’t get too clean, too pure. Sally brought that up to me, and I said that from what I had learned so far is that the raw fats actually surround and protect the cells, so that that is not really the case on this diet. Is that true?

Aajonus: Well, you asked me about vegetarian and fruitarian diet, not a raw diet.

— Let me divide that into two questions. On this diet, which is an all raw diet, do the cell walls get that thin? They probably don’t, because of the fats.

Aajonus: Not at all. In fact, they get quite protected and quite thick.

— Because the fat is actually metabolized into the cell and the fat content of the cell increases.

Aajonus: Yes. As a fruitarian, vegetarian, you are using twice, three, four times more fats to do everything with the fats that you don’t have protein to utilize. In a fruitarian or vegetarian diet there is hardly any protein that you can digest.

— Because?

Aajonus: You are not eating it in a form that you can digest. Vegetation, there are very few humans that can utilize the protein properly for building. It’s mostly used for pyruvate for fuel or it’s transformed into a fat, a substance. So you keep burning up the fats and you keep utilizing the fats more than any other nutrients. There is never enough unless you lived on fats. But if you are a raw food vegetarian or raw food fruitarian you are eating a tremendous amount of fats: coconuts, avocados, cold-pressed nut oils, your cells can stay pretty protected, but you would have to eat a tremendous amount.

Like I did when I lived outdoors. I would go through seven pounds of nuts a day with all the oil in them. I would go through six, seven, ten avocados a day. One or two coconuts a day.

— But on the all raw diet, including the meat, the fat is actually becoming part of the cell content, the cell wall itself.

Aajonus: Everything is being lubricated properly. Unless you are in an environment that is so polluted, that there are so many heavy metallic particles and toxins that are getting into your system, so many monoxides getting into your system that your body uses all the fats to do that, then you can still be deficient. You don’t have enough left to lubricate yourself. Women who use nail polish will prevent themselves from lubricating their entire body for up to two weeks from just one use. The toxicity in that polish penetrates into the nails and gets into the blood and it’s one of the most dangerous of all toxins.

— So you recommend that women don’t put anything on their nails.

Aajonus: Well, they can use olive oil or one of the oils. Butter.

— What about make-up? A natural make-up?

Aajonus: There is no such thing as a natural make-up.

— There are one or two companies that make herbal make-ups.

Aajonus: It is still processed. It still becomes chemicals because all the enzymes are dead. If they want a natural type complexion that the ... whatever natural so-called cosmetic that they are using, if they will put some butter on their face first, or peanut oil or olive oil, depending upon their skin. If their skin is very sensitive and very light, do not use olive oil, because it will have a tendency to break them out in blemishes or little sore or even rashes, like a heat rash. It’s too heavy. Use butter. If they have good Italian skin or Latin skin, then they can use olive oil, peanut oil, no problem. They leave that on their face for about twenty minutes and then they put the make-up on after that. The skin will have absorbed all of the fat first, protected itself. When the make-up goes on, it won’t penetrate the cells.

— And the lighter skinned person can do that with butter.

Aajonus: Yes. But you wipe the butter off right before you put the make-up on, but you’ve got to let it absorb for twenty minutes first.

— This business about the pyruvate. I didn’t quite get that altogether. Just explain to me one more time.

Aajonus: The body makes pyruvate as part of the citric acid cycle. It helps vitamin C and the citric acids fire, explode the fats to burn fuel. If the fats aren’t present, there are a lot more proteins used, made into pyruvate, because then it becomes the fuel instead of the fat being the fuel. The actual ignitor becomes the fuel, which are the sugars. The sugars and the proteins are made into a burning fuel, which is a pyruvate. That’s one of them

— My understanding was you only burn two things for energy. Either fat or sugar.

Aajonus: Nope. There is a pyruvate made from protein. That’s just one of the types. I forgot who discovered that. Can’t remember. That was back in the early seventies. He showed the burning cycle of fats, the normal energy burning cycles, and pyruvate was a substance made from proteins that combined with citric acid to ignite to burn the fat.

— Now we come down to these various conditions that I wanted to ask you to comment on. I realize that each person, their eyes will look different, their constitution will be different, but anything that you can say just in general about these various categories. Let’s start with depression.

Aajonus: Okay, I am going to ask you questions to teach you how to think. When somebody depressed, why is he usually?

— In terms of this technology?

Aajonus: Yes.

— Well, it would certainly have something to do with the brain being deficient.

Aajonus: In what?

— In fat probably. No, in sugar, which is why the coma formula works because you are combining the honey and the fat. The brain is constantly calling for sugar from the liver, glycogen from the liver. So raw unheated honey and butter.

Aajonus: You have to remember that the honey is not a sugar that is going to go into the blood very much, so you have to give it the individual fruit or some kind of a starch sugar like carrot juice.

— But in Mike’s case, what was his...?

Aajonus: That was to get the fat in there to clean everything out and soothe it so the brain damage could be fixed. It wasn’t to get his brain working. As long as his brain got soothed and everything started healing, the enzymes in the honey will be used to heal the brain. So it’s like that doctor that was down in Central America during the Nicaraguan War. He went down there and the natives were taking unheated honey and rubbing it on wounds and they would heal five times faster and he documented this. So he brought that information back and I had been doing that for ten years already.

— Well, by that same token, then, wouldn’t it have been good to combine perhaps some fresh aloe right from the plant with the honey and butter. If you had put that in there, that would have been good too.

Aajonus: You mean for Mike?

— Yes.

Aajonus: Not necessarily because there is a bitter enzyme in it that doesn’t like to pass through the system. So there would be certain blocks. Less of the honey and butter would have been absorbed in his throat and salivary enzymes. It would have had to go all through his stomach first.

— So we are saying fruit, carrot juice, fruit juices with cream...

Aajonus: Or with some fat.

— And honey would be great to add in there. What kind of quantities.

Aajonus: Now the whole reason for it is they have low blood sugar. Now what is usually the reason they have low blood sugar? Somebody who eats a lot of candy. Why do they? They are putting a huge amount of sugar in their body. Why do they get low blood sugar?

— Because it stimulates the enzyme to drive it way down.

Aajonus: Perfect. So what do you do to absorb the excess insulin?

— Starch.

Aajonus: Cooked starch.

— French bread!

Aajonus: Okay, so the combination of those three. Cooked starch, raw fat, fresh fruit.

— But not necessarily taken together.

Aajonus: Yes.

— Really? Take them all together?

Aajonus: Yes. Because what will happen is the cooked starch will go in and search for the excess insulin, bind with it, the raw fat will bind with that, take it to the bowels and dump, so it doesn’t store as glycogen again. The raw sugar will be time-released because it’s mixed in with all of that, and it attaches itself to fats so it doesn’t all get into the blood at once. So it’s time released. So the blood sugar is kept at a nice level.

— So if somebody is going to continue to eat a lot of sweet, basically this could be at least a remedy for them. Licorice tea also tends to balance out and, of course, a lot of people try and use chromium for that and to lose weight.

Aajonus: And they are going to go toward Alzheimer’s. It’s (Inaudible.) healing it.

— Well chromium is a mineral that’s needed by the body in small quantities.

Aajonus: And when it gets too much in there, what it does is it blocks it up, the brain up.

— Do you ever use stevia as a sweetener? Do you know about stevia?

Aajonus: No.

— I never knew this about raw, unheated honey, but up to this point the only sweetener that I knew of that a diabetic could use is stevia. It’s an herb, and it taste even sweeter than sugar, but it does not affect the blood sugar. It’s a rather remarkable and wonderful thing, and the FDA, of course, goaded by the sugar industry, I guess, it was on the hit list a couple of years ago. Now it’s okay. It’s back. And you can either boil it and use drops to sweeten things, which is one way of doing it, but now, of course, I would do it differently.

Aajonus: Juice it.

— Yes, or extract it in apple cider vinegar maybe. I don’t know what that would taste like.

Aajonus: Juice it and put it with honey and refrigerate it.

— Just run the leaves right through the juicer.

Aajonus: But you are talking about for somebody who is not going to take care of themselves and is not on a good diet.

— Good. So that answers that. Let’s talk about chronic fatigue, which can be so many different things. To me it is not even a category. But you know the chronic fatigue/candida syndrome. Because a lot of those people that say they have chronic fatigue and some have been tested candida and either they don’t have candida or they have antibodies in their blood that show they did have candida but maybe don’t now. But basically they are lethargic. Some people can’t even work. I am sure you have had some of those clients.

Aajonus: Still have some.

— And, again, I know they will all be different one to the next, but is there anything that you can talk about here?

Aajonus: Again, it’s an over secretion of a gland. Which one? Or which ones?

— For chronic fatigue? Well, it’s not the adrenals.

Aajonus: Yes. It is. They’ve over-secreted, worked them to death and they’ve exhausted them. So it’s usually adrenal exhaustion. And it usually always goes along with type A, unless it’s a person who was of another type, of type B or C, but used a tremendous amount of coffee or coca cola with caffeine, tremendous amount of caffeine.

— Which affects the adrenals.

Aajonus: Stimulates the adrenals until they break down.

— That’s why it gives you the up.

Aajonus: Yes.

— Okay, so adrenal exhaustion. So basically then we want to nurture and detoxify the adrenals.

Aajonus: Yes. First you’ve got to soothe the body because the adrenalin, because of the lack of fats in an individual who is like that, doesn’t eat many fats nowadays, the adrenalin is constantly working in conjunction with sugars. Sugars, when they are in that substance, they become very, very acid like battery acid, like sulfuric acid.

— When they are in what state?

Aajonus: In conjunction with adrenalin. So it’s like sulfuric acid. So all the tissues get damaged everywhere. They can no longer produce their own prostaglandins, intracellular hormones. They will still secrete the extra-cellular, and when that breaks down completely, you’ve got complete exhaustion. Now that not only goes to the adrenal glands, it goes all over the body, and the sugar that is stored in there, what do you think is going to feed on that? The sugar that is stored in the tissue with the adrenalin and pockets of it all over, adrenal and sugar.

— What’s going to feed on that? Viruses.

Aajonus: No, a yeast. And candida is one of the yeasts that feed on it.

— Okay, wouldn’t that also be for bacterial consumption as well?

Aajonus: Bacteria can feed on it. But all your yeasts come about to eat sugars, whether it’s starch sugar or fruit sugar or vegetable sugars. So that one condition causes the other condition. The person having overactive adrenal glands combining with the sugar and the lack of fats saturates the body and causes candida. Usually the candida occurs before the adrenal exhaustion. But they usually occur together. I would say at least eighty-six percent of the time they occur together.

Now some women will have vaginal yeast infections. Rather than getting candida, because the body will keep throwing the adrenaline and sugars down there where a woman can get rid of it quicker. Whereas a man will get it all through their system. And let’s say it’s been chronic for a long time and they’ve had alcohol along with it. They end up with lupus.

— So you approach it by...

Aajonus: Soothe the body first. So how would you soothe the body first?

— Well, raw meat, cream with vegetable juices.

Aajonus: Raw cream first. Just raw cream and honey. Lots of raw cream and honey. I would say at least eight ounces a day. At least eight ounces of cream a day with about three ounces of honey.

— Taken all at once?

Aajonus: No, spread out throughout the day, because they need to just keep nurturing it a little at a time.

— Just make it up in the morning, keep it in the fridge, and have it with anything and everything. And, of course, the first response is, "I’m not supposed to have anything sweet. Not even an apple." If it’s a candida situation. But the raw honey will not have that affect.

Aajonus: Honey is not a sugar; will not go into a sugar they can feed on. Ninety-nine percent of all bacteria cannot live in honey. You put it in honey, it dies, it just goes dormant, just like that.

— Because of the enzymatic activity?

Aajonus: Yes. You put a yeast in it, it just goes dormant, absolutely freezes.

— But cooked honey they can feed on.

Aajonus: Yes. It will feed on it.

— Who knows this? Does anybody know this?

Aajonus: Oh, yes, I’ve read it a couple of times some place. My teacher, Bruno, taught me. Yes. He knew that.

— All the books on propolis and all the books on the wonder of bees and they don’t really differentiate between the properties of unheated honey versus...

Aajonus: You probably haven’t studied it very much.

— So that’s around?

Aajonus: Yes. Bruno told me that about the bacteria. It could have been his experiments. But I think he read if first before he did his own experiments. But he told me that back in about 1970.

— So start with the cream.

Aajonus: Cream and honey. Of course to build them up... you do not want them acid at all. I do not care if they are anemic. You do not want to put something that is going to get acid in their system. So very rarely any beef. Maybe three or four times a month only. Lots of fish. Tons of fish that alkalinize their systems. The minerals ...

— The (Inaudible.) is creating an acidic condition.

Aajonus: No, the yeast is feeding on a sugared, acidic condition already.

— In other words, all these adrenalin, sugar pockets all throughout the body.

Aajonus: Right. The sugar is already a radical acid anyway, because when you cook sugar, sucrose, it is already in acid form. That’s why it eats away at the villa in the intestines. Actually burns it away.

— Well granulated sugar, which has been heated, right? What about cane juice?

Aajonus: If you are juicing the sugar cane, it’s wonderful.

— It’s one of the things that you are seeing is in a lot of things. They list as one of the ingredients, cane juice. I’ve been seeing it.

Aajonus: Yes, but it would ferment just like any other fruit if it’s not pasteurized. So you have to get the cane and juice it yourself if you really want that, and then, again, it’s like fruit. It’s even more concentrated than carrot juice. And I say never drink carrot juice alone. Always with the cream or with cheese or kefir or anything as long as you time release it with some kind of fat. Avocado, anything.

— So fish.

Aajonus: Lots of fish.

— And what about poultry.

Aajonus: Poultry is fine. All of those. In fact, it’s very good because that aids the tissue where the adrenalin acids and the sugar acids have formed, have stored those pockets, damaged the skin and the chicken and turkey are most like skin in length (? on this word), so it aids that area.

— Now chicken and turkey and fish are less acid forming than beef, but they are still more acid forming than alkaline.

Aajonus: Oh, yes. But they are a pretty even balance though. They will stimulate more white blood cells than they will red because they are much more alkaline.

— So you would have them eat fish once a day? Fish or chicken?

Aajonus: Twice a day.

— For a period of a couple of months?

Aajonus: In all of the cases that I’ve had like that, probably the least that I’ve suggested that they eat it twice a day, two years and seven months.

— And will they start to get a higher energy level in less time than that?

Aajonus: It depends upon if they have been a drinker or another type of drug taker along with it, because usually those people are so whacked out. They are probably more difficult than cancer.

— That’s what you were saying the other day. But this is the approach.

Aajonus: Yes. And, you know, each one reacts differently. And there are times when they just think their whole life has changed, and then when that acid starts dumping out of the system and cleaning out... Usually the candida is never a problem again. Usually I can take care of that and they are never really bothered by the candida.

— (Inaudible.) stay on the diet?

Aajonus: Yes. A little itching once in a while. But that adrenalin toxicity that can come out. It can cause them to get nauseous, irritable again. Anxious. Become very un-nice again. So they will have periods where they just think everything is back the way it was, "why the fuck am I doing this diet?" And they will just do this whole thing. And I just stay very calm and I say, "Think back. What’s happening is you have got some of that stuff coming out into the blood again, and you are reacting as if you are in that state again. Just eat more of the cream. Eat more of the fats, more of the fish. You will get through this. It’s cleaning out. You are going to get better each time." Just figure it as a detoxification, because that’s exactly what it is.

And they think about it, and I may have to say that whole thing three or four times a week to them. The same thing, to remind them, because, you have to understand, when that stuff comes out, it screws up their thinking and brain, their whole emotional equilibrium.

— Yes, I know. I’ve experienced it.

Aajonus: So you just have to nurture them through and you can’t lose patience. If you lose patience, you lose them.

— And this is the same basic approach even for people that have chronic fatigue, Epstein Barr, let’s say, that don’t have candida. The same kind of approach?

Aajonus: Yes.

— Because the Epstein Barr is proliferating because of the adrenal exhaustion.

Aajonus: The adrenal acidity, and also everything else. It’s just that their bodies have formed it into a different chemical, hasn’t bound it with sugars. It’s bound it with something else.

— Do you have a person go and get a blood test to see whether they have candida or not actively per the blood test?

Aajonus: No, I can tell.

— How can you tell?

Aajonus: Their skin will have little red splotches on it like I told you yesterday. They have very sensitive skin. They have a tendency to have perspiration in the crotch that smells alcoholic, and I just ask them. Because most people do touch themselves and smell it. It’s just an animal thing. And whether they know it consciously or not, there are messages that are going when they are doing it.

Also, they will have very itchy scalps, lots of dandruff, dry spots. They have a tendency toward little sores.

— From the candida?

Aajonus: Yes.

— And when you say sensitive skin you mean?

Aajonus: Skin is pretty dry and sensitive. There is not much fat in it at all. Thin.

— Sensitive to hot and cold? Sensitive to...?

Aajonus: Sensitive to anything. It’s just thin skin that has little red splotches and bumps on it. They will very easily get like heat rashes.

— In the hands too, those splotches?

Aajonus: Yes. And you will even get peeling.

— Say something about that. We missed that on the tape yesterday.

Aajonus: My red blood cell is very even today. No splotches. It’s even with the coloring. It moves in and out of colors, but I don’t have any of the splotches today. A few of them. When somebody has a lot of white splotches, it means they have a lot of white blood cells. More than red. And it shows that the red isn’t transporting the oxygen very well. And there is an excess of red blood cells, because there are more toxins in the body that the white blood cells have to take care of. And usually somebody will have to eat red meat.

— Because of the lack of oxygen. And somebody will have to what?

Aajonus: Eat red meat and drink naturally carbonated waters.

— Because?

Aajonus: Because it will raise the oxygen in the blood.

— Medical grade oxygen would also be of assistance, wouldn’t it?

Aajonus: It causes headaches. It’s a synthesized oxygen. It is not a natural oxygen. It doesn’t have the proper bonds of molecules. Even though they say that this and this, it all exists, the same molecule as a natural oxygen that comes from a plant, but it does not react the same way. You give me that kind of oxygen, or if I go and have a carbonated beverage, that’s artificially carbonated, I get a headache like that. My brain shuts down, if I get that synthesized oxygen. All of a sudden I get cloudy; I can’t think straight.

— Well, take something like Gerolsteiner or Perrier.

Aajonus: Those are two of them. There is Ramlosa. There is San Pellegrino. There are quite a few of them that are naturally carbonated.

— That’s carbon dioxide that’s coming out of the well that’s produced naturally in that environment, not from a very limited exposure to the elements. So how does that produce oxygen?

Aajonus: When it goes into the intestines, it turns into nitrogen and the nitrogen when it goes into the blood turns into oxygen.

— So that’s how the bubble, the carbon dioxide in the water turns into oxygen.

Aajonus: By the time it gets to the blood it turns into oxygen. It’s in the book.

— There are some people who say avoid carbonation, even natural carbonation. I don’t know.

Aajonus: I’ve found it works very well. I’ve found that about six times out of ten if somebody is real sensitive to unnatural carbons they get headaches and their mind will shut down a little bit and won’t be thinking as well. Of course, the person who is experiencing it doesn’t really notice that their brain is shutting down.

— Okay, so that’s the chronic fatigue. Speaking of headaches. Most headaches, if they are not coming from tension in the back of the neck, are generally coming from constricted blood vessels leading to the brain, lack of nutrients, lack of oxygen getting to the brain.

Aajonus: How do you come up with that conclusion?

— Well, a lot of people feel that, or tightness, muscle contractions in the upper back, back of the neck, when that’s relieved generally, whether it’s working through the meridian system or because it’s allowing the blood flow to increase. I release headaches all the time with gall bladder 20 on both sides there. Sometimes not. In those cases, usually ice across the occipital ridge there right across the base. After fifteen minutes, it’s just such a relief. So I’ve tried to analyze different kinds of headaches and where it’s coming from. I am just trying to reason out what we would use as a remedy. If somebody had a headache what would we give them.

Aajonus: I’ve got a lengthy thing on headaches in there. I’ve finally come to two reasons: too much salt so the edema is so large that it creates high blood pressure, causes not a constriction, but a swelling in the brain and in the nerves and that creates the headaches. Another one is toxicity in the blood, also needing edema to swell and expand causes the headaches.

— The section on MS in the book, there is very little. And let’s do that next. We have a lady in our community who has been in a wheel chair for many, many, many years. And she has been hanging on, but she’s getting weaker now, and we feel like she is probably going to die soon if we can’t do something for her.

Aajonus: What are her other symptoms?

— I’d have to sit down with her. I haven’t been working with her. Somebody else in the community clinic has been working with her. Basically people have just been serving her, taking care of her. She eats the basic vegetarian diet that most of the community eats.

Aajonus: And what does it say in there about it? "Mainly caused by eating cooked vegetable matter." So as long as she is going to stay on that, she is not going to get better.

— She’s read half of the book. Phil gave her the book. And she has started with the raw fish and everything else. So she is probably not eating anything cooked anymore. She is still resistant to the meat. And she called me the other day and had questions for you. And I was rushing out and I said just write them down and just send them to me. And she never did, but I think I’ve got the answers to just about all of her questions. Is it possible to take somebody that has been in a wheel chair that long and begin to...?

Aajonus: How long has she been in a wheel chair?

— Ten, fifteen years. Twelve years. Something like that.

Aajonus: And how old is she?

— She's late forties.

Aajonus: Yes, she could still get well.

— Really

Aajonus: Absolutely.

— I would think so. So the basic diet.

Aajonus: But I couldn’t tell without looking in the eyes. If she has cirrhosed tissue, then maybe not. So I wouldn’t know without seeing her eyes.

— So there would be a lot of dead spots in the eyes in that case. A lot of lesions, if there were a lot of cirrhosed tissue.

Aajonus: No, cirrhosed tissue usually comes up as brown. Yellow throughout.

— (Inaudible.) are pervading the whole...

Aajonus: Pervading. You know areas are that off color brown, covering that area where those deep holes are, where the lesions are.

— And nothing more to say about MS then, particularly.

Aajonus: No. They just need to eat lots of fish. Lots of carbonated water.

— And we want to nurture and soothe the nerves. So cream. Aajonus: Cream. Phenomenal. But to restore the myelin to the nerves in the nerve sheaths themselves — the myelin itself — the fish is the only thing that can do that. — Is there any fish to avoid?

Aajonus: No.

— But preferably deep sea fish.

Aajonus: No. She could have scallops. Any of those would help tremendously.

— But you’ve got to make sure that... since they are shallow, the shell fish tend to be scavengers and come from more polluted areas. You just have to know where you are getting it.

Aajonus: Yes. As long as they are coming from Canada or New England or Maine or Alaska, it’s fine.

— Well, even Alaska with the oil spill. There are a lot of people that say, for those reasons, don’t eat shell fish altogether, just eat deep sea fish. And then I had that question you answered about the salmon. People were saying, "Nobody eats raw salmon. Salmon — salmonella." (Aajonus laughs.) I want to ask you a question about the Master.

Aajonus: Let me just say one thing. Mint leaves are wonderful for somebody with multiple sclerosis. Spearmint, peppermint, any of them. Eat it with the fish. They could grind it with butter and make a mint sauce.

— But no peppermint tea. No heated.

Aajonus: No. No heated tea because then you have got the same problem. There are enzymes in it which helps soothe the tissue. It also promotes digestion of the fats and the hormones that it will use to soothe the tissues.

— The nerve tissues.

Aajonus: Right.

— The Master has recently had...

Aajonus: Does he call himself the master?

— No, we call him the Master.

Aajonus: Why do you do that? If he doesn’t like, why do you like it?

— I didn’t say he didn’t like it, but he doesn’t refer to himself as anything the way we talk,he and I. We call him a lot of things. We call him Bhagavan Adi Da. He’s got so many names. We call him the Guru, Master, Spiritual Master...


—We have a doctor who sort of oversees the clinic over there on the island. He’s a kind of passive kind of doctor.

Aajonus: Good.

— Not good in this case. Passive in his healing. The question has to do with restoring the optic nerve.

Aajonus: How old is he?

— Fifty-six.

Aajonus: Young man, wow. When I met him he looked old.

— When did you meet him?

Aajonus: In 1972.

— In ‘72 he looked youthful. He was only thirty-three all the photographs...

Aajonus: Well, I was only twenty-five and to me he looked like he was late thirties, so I though he was much older, because he is only seven years older than me.

— But his body changes tremendously. He will look one way, and then a few months He will look completely different. Whatever you think of it, He has periods where he will drink and smoke with devotees and he is always talking about the toxicity of it and how it is basically a sacrifice of his own body-mind for the sake of what He is doing with people. And then he will do... He has then turned around and fasted for sixty or ninety days on lemon juice and water and at the end of that... It’s not just that that is doing it. (Talks about the Master’s body, red mantle.) But the question is, in your experience, can the optic nerve be regenerated?

Aajonus: Okay, usually when somebody has glaucoma they have a hormonal problem and a saturation of tissues, just like a diabetic. Most diabetics go glaucomic. Most people with excessive adrenal glands also get that. They get cataracts and glaucoma.

— An overabundance of adrenalin in the body.

Aajonus: Or insulin. Any kind of hormone that will bind with sugars. Because the sugars are an acid. They eat sheaths away. Then the hormone deposits in there cause swelling in those areas. The tissues are torn. They create lesions all over, so the healing can never completely take place. So all the membranes are too thin. Everything is just all swollen, because it has to contain the water to keep the rest of the tissue from breaking down.

Have to eat a tremendous amount of eggs to repair that and he would have to wash his eyes out two or three times a day — just take egg white and go like that and roll his eye around with the white.

— Why eggs for this?

Aajonus: Well, I’ve found that, again it’s like the chicken, but without building the membrane I can get the membrane soothed and rebuilt with the eggs. It will not regenerate tissue, but I find that I can get in there and soothe everything with it. If he were to eat chicken, it would be wonderful. Turkey, it would be wonderful. Fowl, probably any wonderful birds there. And probably constantly migrating, so if you could trap them or shoot them or whatever you will do, that would be very helpful.

But the eggs will have a tendency to rebuild without just regenerating tissue because usually in a vigil like that you can replace the proteins easier than it is to regenerate the tissue because that takes a little longer. It’s like getting pregnant, waiting for the baby to gestate and then having the baby. That’s a long process. Waiting for the baby to mature. Supplying him with the eggs allows him to rebuild the cells that are still alive and get them strong in a quicker period, in about half the time it takes to regenerate. So he should do both, eating the eggs and fowl. And it could mean any fowl eggs.

— And you think it’s actually possible to regenerate the dead nerve cells.

Aajonus: Yes. He’s only fifty-seven. Of course, I don’t know how many of these LSD or speed or anything like that.

— Not much. He’s only had LSD once or twice.

Aajonus: That’s nothing then. Did he ever get on speed for a long period?

— No.

Aajonus: Okay, as long as he hasn’t done anything real damaging like that, then there’s no problem. But he needs to nurture his eye through the eyeball by putting the egg whites there. Just the white. The egg yolk would cause it to burn and cause a soreness and a swelling and infection. Egg white will do just the opposite. The egg white will actually nurture... I’ve been experimenting with it now for a year and a half. Even Owanza, she’s finally started doing it and her eye sight is improving. She doesn’t have to wear her glasses anymore except to read already.

— Really! So just in general, egg white in the eye for any kind of vision problem.

Aajonus: Right.

— And the egg white is more alkaline, is it?

Aajonus: I don’t know. My eyes all of a sudden... I got a computer about five years ago and within two years my eyes started going bad and I’ve had perfect vision forever. So I knew it had to do with the screen that I had at the time. So I got a radiation screen. It didn’t heal it. And I was just meditating on it one day, and all of a sudden egg whites came into my head. So I started experimenting. And no kidding. Within a month my eyes were almost the same. Back to normal.

— So a lot of this information does come to you in a subtle way.

Aajonus: Yes. Definitely.

— And you actually put your attention on it by meditating for an answer?

Aajonus: Yes.

— And what is your meditation?

Aajonus: I don’t know. I just think about it.

— You just sit there quietly?

Aajonus: No. I can be reading somebody’s poem and all of a sudden that information about something else I’ve been thinking about will come to me. Or I can be talking; I can be writing; it comes at any time.

— This is intuition. But you said you weren’t an intuitive person.

Aajonus: No, I said at that time I wasn’t utilizing it, so I would go to Owanza when I had questions. But then, I said, well, I’ve got good intuition. I used to be able to read minds when I was a child. There is no reason I can’t have it again. So then I ... my intuition told me to go out to the beach and I started reading people’s palms, reading cards, developing it, work on it. So I did it for five years. I just stopped in December. I did it for five years while I was writing the book, to develop it.

— Just for fun you would call people over. You didn’t charge them or anything?

Aajonus: Yes. Definitely. Well, it was a donation. But I made a pretty good living out there.

— And you studied palm reading too, the traditional palm reading?

Aajonus: No. I would do my own. Well, I had a tutor in palm reading when I was about twenty-one, twenty-two years old. Because I was trying to heal myself. I was going to healers, I was going to anybody I could to get any kind of information no matter how far out it was. So I had a palm reader read my palms, and an astrologer. And I learned those techniques. And I got pretty good at just about everything I did.

I got the international bank manager of Bank of America would come to me once a year down there at the beach and ask me about certain investments of his own outside of the bank and on businesses and stuff like that and he would pay me fifty to a hundred dollars to answer three questions. And they obviously worked because he kept coming back. And a lot of other people did the same. But I always, when I did a reading, I would always do it to help the person take care of themselves and be the ruler, the master of their own lives.

So I wasn’t one of those psychics, like a lot of them will tell them things to keep them coming back. I wanted to teach them to have some control in their lives. So I didn’t have a lot of people who came back and when they did, I would say, "Now I’ve already told you this. You’ve just got to do it."

So, yes, I developed (Inaudible.)

— Did the egg whites help your eyes?

Aajonus: Oh yes. Definitely.

— It restore them?

Aajonus: Yes.

— And you put it then there every day?

Aajonus: No, I did during the period, but when it got to the point where they were well, I stopped.

— And just put it under the lid and roll it around.

Aajonus: Just put it on your little finger and just look up and put it on the white of the eye itself and then roll it.

— Once a day?

Aajonus: Well, for somebody who has got glaucoma, they should do it two or three times a day. Because it actually feeds the eye, like if you were to put certain nutrients on your neck, it would be absorbed into your body and you can actually feel it.

— Like progesterone cream is taken that way.

Aajonus: Not a good thing, but, yes, it does absorb that way. And the eye will absorb the egg white.

— As long as we are on that subject, then, maybe we should just go to that. Let’s talk about male and female, because I have had Sally on progesterone cream and it did help her, natural progesterone cream from the wild Mexican yam. But let’s just talk for a minute about PMS, menopause, dry vaginal walls and depression which is all the sort of thing that women in the menopausal period tend to run up against. And, of course, the estrogen therapy is just taboo as far as I am concerned. There are a few things that are sort of benign forms of it that come from more natural sources, like Estriol is one. And there is an Estriol cream that you can rub in the vagina and it brings are certain amount of controlled, natural estrogen to that part of the body. And the progesterone the cream is supposed to go in and act as a precursor to the body’s producing of its own estrogen. So that’s one area I wanted to cover. PMS, menopause and in the men, impotence, all the things that they are buying, yohimbe and all of this stuff.

Aajonus: Well, I go into it in the book on both of those. But, let me give you an idea of where to come from as a nutritional healer. All the hormones will be manufactured by the glands if they get the proper nutrients. So what are the two most important nutrients?

— Menopause or no menopause in other words.

Aajonus: For hormonal development, regardless. What is the major constituent of every hormone?

— In terms of what synthesizes it?

Aajonus: What is the major part of the composition of all hormones?

— In terms of the food types? I’m not sure that I know.

Aajonus: Fat. Protein is the major building block of it.

— Fat and protein.

Aajonus: Fat and protein, you have no problem. So let’s say the person, especially if they have been vegetarian, has been so protein and fat starved, the raw, enzymes bound, that the cells have even forgotten how to make the hormone. And that’s usually why you have such trouble. You go get a glandular, freeze dried glandular extract. If you can’t get the actual fresh, raw gland and eat it, and you can in some places. Like around the Amish you can order any gland you want. You get the tissue, ovary tissue, and you get it freeze dried. Preferable to chew, but if you don’t chew that’s fine. You eat it with liver or fish or some kind of meat, and, a woman would take it, or a man takes the testes tissue (or prostate tissue) and eats that with some kind of meat.

And I would suggest eating it... you take it for about four or five days at the most. Some people react so quickly that you only give it to them for three days, because it will create the opposite effect. It will stop production. So you have to watch.

— And so the theory about this is again like, the tissue will gravitate to that organ and start to replenish...

Aajonus: No, what I perceive that what happens, and I had it in a dream, what happens is the body sees that tissue in the blood and analyzes it. It sends a message back to the brain and says, "We’ve got some dead tissue here. We’ve analyzed it. Here are what its components are. Here is what we need." So the brain starts sending messages back to produce it.

— In other words, dead prostate from the cow is floating in the bloodstream.

Aajonus: Right. So the body analyses its chemical composition, sends all of its messages back and then that goes back to the organ itself.

— But even if it’s freeze dried, it shouldn’t be entirely dead, right?

Aajonus: No. That’s what I am saying. It still can be melted down and its components can be understood. It’s not that any of it is utilizable or active at all. It’s just that the body can analyze it and say, "Oh, yes. That’s how we make that." Then it remembers how to make it because it’s been introduced. It’s like handing them the blue print. The blue print is not the building. But it is handing them the blue print. However, if you did eat the fresh tissue then that would directly go to that site and build that area.

— So if you could do that, that would be great.

Aajonus: That’s what I am saying. That would be phenomenal.

— But you would eat it on the spot. Which leads to another question. When you buy a piece of so-called fresh meat, how alive is it?

Aajonus: You can utilize the protein and the fats in it and a lot of things for regeneration. It will have lost about fifty percent of its properties.

— Yes, you were talking about eating freshly killed meat the other day.

Aajonus: It’s an experience that you have to really experience. It’s like when you see those vampire movies. (He makes some sounds.) That’s the kind of elation that goes along with it.

— So, you’ve had that experience with ...

Aajonus: Well, you watch an animal that has just killed a warm, live animal and their eyes go glazed over. It’s an actual "spiritual" experience. (Aajonus laughs.) As well as visceral.

— So take it for a few days.

Aajonus: Yes, a few days. Once a day, four or five tablet. For three to five days. More often it is four to five, but some people are more vital and they react very quickly. About every three or four weeks, that’s all. Four about three or four months and then they are back to normal.

— And so you’ve found this stimulates estrogen production for women beyond menopause and helps the thin vagina walls, painful...

Aajonus: Yes. And it brings back their period. I’ve got women in their late fifties now that are still having their periods. Not every month. But they are having them every three to six months. And they went sometimes three or four years without having a period. Back on the diet and the hormones start pumping again and they are back to life.

— Well, the diet in itself would start to replenish.

Aajonus: Yes. Because it’s supplying the nutrients that you need to function properly.

— And would you combine fat with the protein. Like butter?

Aajonus: You mean for that meal? For the one to stimulate the glands?

— Yes.

Aajonus: Always. It’s always good to have extra fat with it. If you are not eating the fat off the meat, the fat with the meat, the fat that comes with the beef, then I am saying you should have some butter or cream or milk. It’s helpful. If you are eating fish, there is lots of fat in fish, so you don’t necessarily have to, but why not.

— It can’t overdo it in the raw state.

Aajonus: Well, the fish has a tendency to, because of the high mineral content. I notice that it stimulates fat burning. People will have a tendency to lose weight if they just eat fish. They get hungry fairly quickly, because the nervous system seems to just suck it up. So if you eat a little butter with it, it will be a little calmer, the way it goes into the system.

— The nervous system looking for the minerals.

Aajonus: Or eat avocado with it. Avocado and fish are a wonderful combination. You know, you can make your wasabi with it. Like when I make a wasabi, I will take the fresh horseradish root and slice it very thinly and then blend it to lumps and then I will put some [Recipe] avocado with it with just a touch of honey and blend it and blend it and blend it and some lemon juice and lime juice to preserve the avocado so it won’t rancidify. You can put it in the fridge for two days sometimes. The avocado won’t turn at all. So I blend that whole thing together and I’ve got my own wasabi. It can even sit in the fridge for two days.

— Is wasabi made out of the standard horseradish root? Because I use horseradish root, but the wasabi seems to have the unique taste. I wonder if it’s a Japanese horseradish or something?

Aajonus: Well, it’s almost the same horseradish, but they dehydrate it and then powder it. And that gives a different flavor to it.

— And so for men for prostatitis, for prostate cancers and so on, again you would have them take some of this glandular and do the diet.

Aajonus: Yes. But usually with a man he can eat liver and it will take care of it. You can have some testes, some freeze-dried testes as well and eat it with the liver.

— In capsules or the real thing.

Aajonus: Well, the real thing would be even better. I think they are called sweetbreads, aren’t they? But I am talking about the freeze- dried testes. They are in pill form.

— Where do you get those? Do you have a source that you use that you like?

Aajonus: Well, I used to use Carlton labs in Illinois. But now they have nothing that is pure. When I used to work with them a lot, I was experimenting with them, they used to have just that gland, and then they would have also a complete multi-glandular supplement. Now they only make the multi’s.

There are several sources. Let me get them. It’s best to get just the gland you want, unless somebody has adrenal exhaustion, they usually have thyroid exhaustion and then every other gland is in exhaustion, so it’s usually good to have a multi-glandular tissue for anybody who has adrenal exhaustion.

— And then I imagine the rest of the approach for prostate cancer or prostatitis would be what we would do for any gland, whether it’s the pancreas or the adrenals, what we’ve already talked about in terms of the diet.

Aajonus: Yes. Now when you are talking about regenerating the cells of a gland, you have to understand that it needs fish as well as beef, because there are mostly red cells in many of the glands. Unless you are getting... the kidneys are more of a whitish, pinkish, pancreas, depending upon the individual is either a light color or deep color. The spleen is very deep red, the liver is deep red. Those glands are deep red. The ovaries, depending upon the individual, they are usually a pretty rich red too. But the nerves in them, they have nerves throughout.

So if you were to put a food grade peroxide, it would actually bleach the color out of it and then you would find all of these nerve strands going throughout. So you know that you have a massive amount of nerve fibers that have to be replaced too. So you need to eat fish as well as beef for the glands to be properly regenerated, because the nerves have to be rebuilt as well as the...

— The fatty content in the fish is good for the nerves.

Aajonus: Right. Also the protein. And the minerals. And the chicken, if possible, if they will eat it.

— And there are different kinds of protein in the chicken and the fish and the meat, biochemically.

Aajonus: Yes. But the fish and beef, I would say, are probably the most important to rebuild the glandular tissues. And when somebody goes on this diet, usually for the first two, two and a half years the body spends rebuilding the glands.

— In less than ten days I already noticed a difference in the prostate. I guess it can work that fast too.

Aajonus: Well, that doesn’t mean it’s regenerated. It means its taken care of all the inflammation, the bad stuff that’s in there and now it can clean it out. But as far as regenerating, it takes about two years, two and a half years at the most, unless somebody is really cirrhosed, then it can take longer.

— For virility, the same thing. All the same things we’ve been talking about.

Aajonus: In a man or a woman?

— Man.

Aajonus: Lots of shellfish. Oysters. Scallops are excellent. For the minerals. Because usually an individual who isn’t potent is not, unless they are vegetarian, it’s because of the mineral toxicity going to those glands. The other glands are already probably too full, can’t take anymore, so now they are going down there.

— So when you say mineral toxicity, you mean excess minerals.

Aajonus: Toxic metal minerals. Airborne pollution minerals, they go in the body, storing them there. And that doesn’t recover as quickly. If somebody is a vegetarian, all they have to do is start eating meat and they will re-coop quickly. And onions are great stimulators. Onions and meat together. Onions and garlic. Onions and horseradish.

Let me also finish this. A lot of your vegetarians cannot afford to ejaculate. So a lot of them will become out of necessity impotent.

— Because of the drain of energy of ejaculation.

Aajonus: The drain of nutrients, the amount of hormones, proteins, fats that are lost and the finest that the body can utilize will be used there.

— That’s why the Indians eat it in India. They just take the semen and...

Aajonus: Right. They don’t have any protein. All they eat is grains.

— That’s a traditional yogic practice to eat... when you do, and of course a lot of them are celibates and they don’t very much, but when they do they take it back into the body.

Aajonus: Right, because they need those nutrients. That’s also basically where drinking your own urine came from, because you have to keep drinking your own proteins because you can’t afford to lose them because you don’t eat them. So, it’s a starving community for those things to have evolved, but it’s not necessary if you are eating properly.

— There is also the phenomenon of the depletion of life force too through ejaculation that has been traditionally part of the esoteric practice of kundalini yoga and all that. So you are suggesting that on this diet one could actually ejaculate without being depleted.

Aajonus: That’s right.

— Isn’t that interesting. And again, we are building the testicles with the fish and so on.

Aajonus: And a lot of times you don’t want to eat your own. Because when you start getting healthy enough to throw off the toxins, your body is going to start throwing the toxins off in your sperm, and whoever eats it can end up vomiting very quickly. And you can smell it. You can smell like burning iron.

— We talked about hepatitis the other day and covered it in terms of the raw liver. I would also use castor oil fomentations over the liver a couple of times a day. I don’t know how you feel about that, but it’s been very beneficial to people to decongest.

Aajonus: Well, castor oil is pretty abrasive.

— Well, Aztec Secret Healing Clay will do it too. You talk about that. I like that.

Aajonus: Yes. I prefer eating that.

— Or just even as a fomentation.

Aajonus: Yes. That’s fine.

— You mix it with apple cider vinegar and make a thick paste. So as far as hepatitis, we talked about eating the raw liver.

Aajonus: Another thing to help the liver is if you eat the... I’ve done this with several people with liver conditions, extreme ones. Their livers would go into spasms and the only way I could get the spasms to calm down... I tried cucumber and that didn’t work, and I thought that would work, and it helped a little bit, but it didn’t stop it. So I told them to take fennel root, fresh, raw. It’s kind of like celery and you juice it or you grind it with the liver.

— Right. As an antispasmodic, because that’s what it is.

Aajonus: Is it?

— Yes. And also lobelia. Fresh lobelia, very small amount, is one of the great antispasmodics. And basically we are not addressing the hepatitis C virus at all. I mean, you don’t look at it that way.

Aajonus: The virus is there to help break down dead tissue or toxic matter. So you just want to feed the whole condition to get well while the virus does its job.

— Arthritis. Basically we have just a few. My notes here are diabetes.

Aajonus: I’ve been in bed with all those itis boys, and boy they are bitches. (Aajonus laughs.) Some old lady told me that joke. Arthur is the worst.

— My father used to say you get up in the morning with... you wake up with your friend Charlie Horse. I have lunch with Arthur Itis. Then I go the movies with Ben Gay. (Aajonus laughs.) Heart conditions, diabetes, lung cancer, arthritis. Those are the last four. I have somebody I am working with a lung tumor right now. You want to talk about lung cancer. Anything to say about that?

Aajonus: Well, it depends on the conditions. A key to that, is the person a smoker?

— On and off, but not consistently his whole life.

Aajonus: It’s a he. And all lobes or one lobes or ...

— One side.

Aajonus: One entire side.

— Well, he’s just got one mass. I don’t know how big it is at this point.

Aajonus: It’s on the lower lobe?

— I’m not sure. I just started to talk to him. We just found this out. I am not sure how big it is or the size of it.

Aajonus: And what’s his diet been like?

— His diet has been a vegetarian diet predominantly. And then ever now and then he eats some cooked animal food. Like everybody.

Aajonus: So he is one of the followers. God, those people usually respond so fast. Because they are usually more enlightened than junk fooders. I have even seen in communities like that real junk fooders. They eat chocolate chip cookies.

— We have our share of those.

Aajonus: Real garbage. Things that will just melt your intestines away. Sugar is a sulfuric acid substance. And it’s on the left or right? Do you know?

— I am not sure. I believe it’s on the right. And I should see in his iris a brown spot.

Aajonus: Well, you will see either a discolored brown area over that whole space. That means that it could metastasize, the whole area. Or if he has just a brown spot, that means it’s very localized. Or, if it’s a hole, it’s a lesion and it doesn’t show up with yellow around it, then it’s not likely to metastasize.

But that particular area, being that dead ... because when it’s a lesion, you have no idea what’s in there. You have no idea what’s in that dead tissue. And let’s say somebody stored a massive amount of all their life’s X-rays, stored all the radiation in that one part of the body. When that starts decomposing and getting into the system, or a tumor starts building around that area and starts secreting its fluids to decompose it, massive vomiting. It’s not pretty. So you really don’t have any idea what’s in that area. That’s why I like to ask as many questions as I can, just to get all the information. "Have you taken a lot of aspirin, antihistamines?" Just anything, so you know what might be stored in that area.

— And then what would you, in terms of aspirin and antihistamine...?

Aajonus: Well, if they had a lot of antihistamines, speed, I would make sure that they had a thin slice of cheese about aneighth of an inch by three inches, two and a half inches, whatever the brick size of the cheese is, have them have that about five to six times a day. With anything else. With whatever they are eating. They just need a thin slice to be there to absorb any of that toxin that is going to dump. Otherwise they are going to start vomiting and being nauseous and not very nice people in general.

— And for aspirin the same thing?

Aajonus: No. You need your cooked starch for that, and also you need lots of pineapple.

— Why is aspirin different?

Aajonus: Aspirin is almost like a cement in the body. It hardens like a cement and the only thing that can dissolve it is the bromelain. And when it starts dissolving... the cheese can bind it to an extent, but it still has a tendency to be fluid and a cooked starch absorbs.

— Is that basically aspirin, or does that include Tylenol and Excedrin and all that?

Aajonus: No, they are all a little different. They are not aspirin-based. Aspirin damages capillaries. It destroys vitamin K, all kinds of things. And if they have had lots of aspirin...

— Well, a lot of people are taking it to thin their blood.

Aajonus: I couldn’t stop that woman’s cancer from growing that had all that aspirin. It was just impossible. It just grew. In the space of a year and a half, it went from this little bitty thing to cover her entire chest.

— Was she on your diet for the year and a half.

Aajonus: Yes. She had been on it for four years. She was two hundred and thirty pounds. Went down to a normal weight after a few years. Her headaches went away right away. So she did great. But there was just no way we could stop that little tumor from growing.

— So she had the tumor from the time she came to you.

Aajonus: Well, she had it at sixteen years old. And she came to me in ‘62.

— She had the tumor for her whole life?

Aajonus: It was removed. And then it started reacting. So she had a great two and a half years on the diet before that started erupting. Her headaches still did not come back, and she had headaches all her life. That’s why she took the aspirin. When she went on the diet, within a few days the headaches stopped. She never had another headache. She started losing weight and she had been over a hundred and thirty pounds overweight. No, she was a hundred and twenty pounds overweight.

— It was a cancerous tumor.

Aajonus: Well, I think it was cancerous because they removed it.

— And there was no sign of that reappearing when she started a diet.

Aajonus: She said it was seeping. There was some seepage out of it that she hadn’t had in a while.

— External? I mean that she could actually (Inaudible.)

Aajonus: Yes, from the scar. The scar became a scab and started seeping.

— This was a breast tumor.

Aajonus: Yes. It was on the left actually. So it started there and then when it started growing, it just grew a whole mass. And just like, a squamous cell, so it looked like it was full of warts. Scaly looking. It stunk terribly. And the great constituent of that tissue had the properties of aspirin all throughout it.

— See, now Schulz has had some amazing success with that kind of stuff with the stink that he has experienced with people and the things that’s he’s made them do with the hot and cold therapy and with the poultices. He talks about puss and blood and all this shit that has come out of these tumors.

Aajonus: Well, you know, I probably could have driven her to (Inaudible.) above it, but she had a good life and it’s like my own son. I gave him the choice of going or staying. And I am pretty perceptive when it comes to somebody and I know when they are not going to be a happy person. Even if they triumph, it’s not going to be a happy process. Why put them through it.

— He talks about that too. Christopher talked about it. The three categories of people.

Aajonus: Owanza was a mess, but she wanted to fight. And she was young enough to still fight it, and have a lot of life left, years left.

— You want to talk a little bit about arthritis.

Aajonus: Well, arthritis is a real prick. (Aajonus laughs.) I had arthritis from a very young age. It’s a lack of fats, again, in the joints. and a lot of times it’s not diagnosed, but the bursas are not producing the fluids to lubricate the...


— You are talking about arthritis and lubricating the bursa and the joints.

Aajonus: Okay, so the bursa, in many cases, the bursa is manufacturing a toxic, acidic fluid. So that even irritates the joints more. It’s not getting lubricated properly. So that creates viruses, infections, yeasts in the joints. What that does, it eats away at the cartilage. And when the cartilage is gone, usually in your fifties, then you are starting to eat away at the bones.

— In those situations, when people have their knee and hip replacement surgeries, is that about all you can do at that point?

Aajonus: Yes. That’s about it. It’s so gone, so eaten away. There is no regenerating that. It would take as long as it took them to deteriorate to rebuild it. So it’s a big problem. So what you have to do is eat the right kind of fats. And those people who have a tendency towards arthritis really need to stay away from cooked beef. If they are going to eat any kind of cooked meat, cooked chicken is okay once or twice a week. Otherwise they just need to stay away from cooked meats.

— The uric acid and so on into the joints.

Aajonus: Right.

— Okay, any particular emphasis in terms of our diet then for arthritis?

Aajonus: Watch the mineral, because just remember the cartilage and the bone are very mineral concentrated because they are solid.

— So oyster, shellfish.

Aajonus: Right. Deep sea fish. Chicken. Chicken is loaded with fat and it’s good to lubricate the joint. And chicken fat. I mean if you get a chicken and right around the back end there are these pockets of fat. And I go to Wild Oats, you know, and I say, I want you to say really big pockets of fat there. They say, "Do you eat those raw too?" (Aajonus laughs.) "Yep. That’s my favorite fat."

— And they give you the chicken with the one that has the biggest pockets.

Aajonus: Biggest pockets of fat.

— The Jews, you know, they serve little thing of the chicken fat with a pastrami sandwich. But I’m sure that’s heated.

Aajonus: Oh, of course. Back when, before refrigeration they didn’t. They would just pull it out and eat it right off.

— They would have to heat it in order for it be that clearish liquid. Because it wouldn’t look that way.

Aajonus: No. It’s yellow. Oh, I love the taste of it.

— And chicken livers also.

Aajonus: Right. But if they will eat that chicken fat within about four or five hours the pain will mitigate tremendously. It will help mitigate it by at least fifty percent.

— Oh, that’s really good to know. More than the fish fat even. Because of...

Aajonus: Don’t know. (Aajonus laughs.) I would say because it’s...

— Denser.

Aajonus: Well, no, I think because the chicken cell is very much like our skin and tissue cells. So the fat, I think, has the ability to go in a feed the bursas and the joints faster than any other. Because maybe the other fats have to be converted more.

— What about eating beef fat, just the fat, then?

Aajonus: Doesn’t do it like the chicken fat. It helps, but it doesn’t do it as quickly as the chicken fat.

— Well, is the chicken closer to us than the cow?

Aajonus: Yes. Well, as far as skin and connective tissue. But the beef is more like our muscle and glandular tissue.

— Diabetes and cardiovascular problems, heart problems.

Aajonus: I will just take one at a time. Diabetes.

— That is the end of the list.

Aajonus: Diabetes. Someone who is already taking insulin, you need to wean them off of it. It could take two years. Just like I say in the book. Wean them off of it. Stop them eating cooked sugars of any type. Any pasteurized juices, they need to stay away from. They need to eat fat absolutely every time they eat something sweet. And they need to eat lots of fish with beef to regenerate that pancreas.

— And can they start to eat the unheated honey right away?

Aajonus: Oh, yes. That’s... in fact, they can reduce their insulin right away, by usually half, as soon as they start eating the honey, because the honey can be converted into insulin, an insulin like substance. It acts just like insulin.

— And heart conditions and cardiovascular conditions, blocked arteries, cardiac arrhythmias and all of that.

Aajonus: Well, I pretty much covered that in the book too. That’s’ again the toxic fats which are clogging the system. Once they are cooked, they have no enzymes to keep themselves hydrated so they just start drying out.

— For somebody that has like a coronary artery blockage where they want to go in and do an angioplasty or something.

Aajonus: Let them do it.

— And then start?

Aajonus: Yes.

— What about bypass.

Aajonus: That too. Sometimes it’s just too far gone, depending on the condition. An occlusion, that’s lot of...

— But wouldn’t you think...? You probably wouldn’t. You probably wouldn’t think that chelation would be more beneficial than cardiac surgery.

Aajonus: No. No. No. Chelation could disrupt the whole... I’ve seen too many chelation, oh! You know when it starts ripping apart the occlusions.

— It’s an enzyme.

Aajonus: Yes. But it doesn’t discriminate. It just starts tearing up the walls themselves, making them thinner and it leaves a residue. Let’s say a couple of those clumps get in the brain. They will jam up an area, cause gangrene somewhere. It’s not a pretty thing. There are just too many side effects with that.

Eat pineapple and cream and cheese together. That’s a great one to get of arterial (Inaudible.) Also a little bit more radical, if you really want to do chelation, is take cream and olive oil and pineapple together and honey. That will rip it apart.

— Because the pineapple is basically breaking it down.

Aajonus: Those are the enzymes that will start eating it up.

— The honey too.

Aajonus: Well, the honey won’t necessarily react that way. It’s going to be more ... with the pineapple, the honey is going to take on a property of soothing the activity of the pineapple, the destruction of the pineapple.

— And what does the cream and the olive oil do?

Aajonus: The cream is going to help soothe everything and help wash it. It’s going to be the soap to help pull it out.

— And the olive oil?

Aajonus: And the olive oil also will really rip it out. It’s a great solvent. (Inaudible.) scar tissue.

— Well, what about apple cider vinegar?

Aajonus: I don’t think that’s a good idea because with that kind of acidity and let’s say that acidity mixes in the wall, it could cause a spasm of the muscle and you could have a cardiac arrest right there.

— But the pineapple won’t do that.

Aajonus: No, the pineapple won’t do that with cream. Because if you’ve’ got the pineapple there and the olive oil. Okay, those two will just kind of break it up. Pineapple will help dissolve and the olive oil will help dissolve also. The two will work together. The raw cream will soothe the tissue and it’s happening. And the honey will help the balance of all of it work. You put vinegar in there and that vinegar burns something. Because like in the coffee substitute, I don’t care if you have two ounces of cream in there and only have one tablespoon of vinegar, that vinegar bites. And it will have a tendency to cause spasms.

— But you are not saying that a person with that kind of condition couldn’t have vinegar in one of the other recipes.

Aajonus: No. That would be okay. That would be fine.

— How many times a day this pineapple combination?

Aajonus: I would say only once a day.

— Because it’s so strong?

Aajonus: Yes.

— Now, I can eat a huge amount of pineapple in one sitting. Is that not a good idea? Everything you have said so far has taken pineapple is relatively small quantities.

Aajonus: We are talking about extreme conditions. You are not in an extreme condition.

— So, it’s okay if your body feels like it wants it.

Aajonus: Yes. And you are eating cream and fat and everything. So it’s fine. Eat as much as you want. And when your body has had enough, it will say, "That’s enough." I don’t like to give people a lot of pineapple. When I used to give them a lot of pineapple at once, they would burn out on the pineapple. And then I couldn’t get them to eat the pineapple to do what I wanted it to do. So now, I measure it out so I get it to do what I want it to do and they don’t get burned out on the pineapple.

— Right. You mentioned the other day, and this corroborated something that happened. I made the salad dressing with apple cider vinegar and a raw egg and some spices and so on. And then I put it in the fridge and a day or two later it was much stronger. Is that the egg rather than the vinegar, isn’t it? Because you said something about the raw fertile egg only lasting a day or two.

Aajonus: Only twenty-four hours. Not two.

— And what happens?

Aajonus: It starts to go bad. It starts to grow bacteria. Salmonella, everything. If you want to have quick diarrhea, you want to clean out your colon, eat that! (Aajonus laughs.)

— This was two or three days later, and I knew I shouldn’t eat it, but I didn’t know what it was. In other words, it was strong. It had real bite to it. The vinegar had gotten more intense. Really strong. And I am wondering if that was from the egg.

Aajonus: No. The vinegar has that quality.

— Well, when I’ve made dressings in the past, like using balsamic vinegar, it tastes basically the same on day three. But this was dramatic.

Aajonus: Well, you are talking about a vinegar that is pasteurized. This is an unpasteurized vinegar. It’s alive and active. Any food that is alive with enzymes is always going to be active and working, doing something to change something. And if you are just having pasteurized vinegar, of course, it is not going to change much.

— So there is nothing wrong with eating that apart from the egg.

Aajonus: Apart from the egg. It’s fine. I have some pickles in here that Onique made. I had it in the fridge about a year and three months and I had a guest here about a week and a half ago, and she wanted pickles. I said, "Well, I’ve got some in the fridge." And they had sat there for a year and three months.

— Cucumbers and apple cider vinegar? Whole ones?

Aajonus: No. Quartered lengthwise, and they were great before. Woo! They were just too much. (Aajonus laughs.) They were really over the hill. It was like drinking straight vinegar. They were too strong.

— How do you make those?

Aajonus: [Recipe] All you do is take your pickling cucumbers, quarter them lengthwise and stick them in the vinegar in there. In twenty-four hours or less, overnight, you’ve got pickles.

— Do you have to use pickling cucumbers?

Aajonus: It’s the best. Otherwise they don’t taste ... they have a different taste. It’s almost like a waxy taste if you don’t use the pickling cucumbers. There is a sweetness to the pickling cucumbers.

— You’ve found organic?

Aajonus: Yes.

— We’ve depleted all my questions.

Aajonus: (Aajonus laughs.) Well good.

— The only thing that I wanted to ask you if you would do now is just talk a few recipes.

Aajonus: Okay. What do you like?

— Everything.

Aajonus: What is your favorite dish?


Aajonus: Okay. [Recipe] Make a bread crust without the fat. Doesn’t even need yeast, because it doesn’t really need to leaven at all. Make it or buy one. If you are going to buy one, it’s usually made from fortified and bleached flour. You can make your own bread and go ahead and toast that or bake it.You can make it with fish. There are all different kinds of things you can make it with. You can take slices, very thin slices of filet mignon. That will break up easily and put little strips of them on there. Sometimes somebody will take ground beef and just spread it around.

Or the way I do it is I take the tomato and I will blend it with butter, sometimes a little olive oil and some ground, powdered pumpkin seeds or sunflower seeds, a couple of ounces of that with...

I will give you a recipe for two people. Use a whole tomato, two and a half ounces of the powdered pumpkin seeds. You take the pumpkin seeds. Let’s say you have three and a half ounces of pumpkin seeds. That will grind down to about two and a half ounces of pumpkin seeds. You mix that in with the tomato and melted butter. Or you put the butter in there and mix it altogether. And you can put ingarlic, oregano too if you want, preferably fresh. And just set it in the... Put the blender blades on top. Set it all in hot water and let it melt down. It doesn’t need to melt down much unless the tomato has been refrigerated and isn’t room temperature. Then you blend it until it’s very smooth. You can put some cheese and blend with it or not. I prefer not.

The properties, the binding properties, the gelatinous properties of the pumpkin seed make it thicker. And also the tomato has some kind of gelatinous effect too, and makes it thick when it’s combined with the butter in that kind of sauce. So then I will pour that over the bread, the crust. And then I will grate the cheese and I will spread that all over it too. Or, if I want meat with it... I usually like to have meat whenever I have it, so I will take ground beef and I will fold that whole sauce in it and then I will spread that all over it and then put the...

— And the meat and the starch are not a bad food combination.

Aajonus: No, perfect, as long as it’s raw.

— What about to make that sauce a little salty tasting?

Aajonus: It’s pretty salty already. That tomato makes it salty. Once you cook a tomato it goes bland and flat. As long as the tomato is fresh, like when you bite into it, it is so sweet because it’s so high in sodium and other minerals. That’s why it’s so sweet, salty sweet, until you cook it. So as long as you are blending it. And also the pumpkin seeds have a salty taste. So it’s like it’s salted already.

— You could always use some celery too, anytime you wanted to add a little natural sodium to something. Right?

Aajonus: Yes. But you’ve got more sodium in a tomato than you do in a stalk of celery.

— Is that so? So you could use a tomato or celery, juice it and take that juice and add it to a sauce.

Aajonus: Yes. Absolutely.

— Now give me your favorite recipe.

Aajonus: (Aajonus laughs.) That’s mine. Just that way with spaghetti.

— With that sauce on it.

Aajonus: Yes. With that sauce. [Recipe] Sometimes I will dice up some red onion and put it with it too. I spread it over the top, diced. Lots of grated cheese on top.

— You can’t get raw parmesan, though, can you?

Aajonus: You don’t need it. One of the other cheese. You’ve got three different flavors of cheeses. It goes a long way.

— I am starting to appreciate those flavors now that the salt isn’t obstructing them.

Aajonus: (Aajonus laughs.) Yes.

— You have started writing up the recipes. (They talk about the rest of their time together, about the recipes.)

Aajonus: The ones I don’t have. Let’s say strudel, say an apple strudel. [Recipe] This was made when I wouldn’t eat anything cooked at all. You take strips of dough. Do not sweeten it though, just as if you were making it bland. Pie crust, but without the fat. Almost like it’s bread instead. Bland bread.

— I know I asked you this before. But if you wanted to do some sprouted wheat berries ground up to make or even sunflower seeds ground up or almonds...

Aajonus: No, because you are going to cook it. So you cut it in strips and cook it that way. So while that is cooking you take apples and pears.

— Bake it.

Aajonus: Yes. Bake it. While the strips are baking, it should be on a pyrex plate so it doesn’t absorb any aluminum or anything. Let’s say you will be making two bowls of strudel — for two people. Take one pear and two apples. Don’t peel them. Blend all of it together. Just core them and blend the peel and the meat. Blend it with about ten dates and a little block of cheese about and inch by three inches. Slice it up into thin slices (the cheese). Blend that all together with about two tablespoons of your Canadian clover white honey to give it a powdered sugar taste. Blend that all together until it is very, very smooth and it’s also warm, so it’s warm to your hand. So that is going to be a lot of blending.

It will usually take maybe four and a half to five minutes of blending. When the crust is done you take it out, put it on the plates and let it cool down. Pour a layer about a half inch thick of the sauce. Put down three strips of the dough going one way. Don’t cook the dough until it is completely solid. Just leave it slightly moist. Then it is still warm. So you put a few pats of butter on top of that and sprinkle it with grated cheese. Put more sauce down. Then you take three more strips and you run them the other direction. Again more butter and cheese. That’s all there is to it. It’s already slightly warm. It’s not hot, but it’s slightly warm. You just let it sit for maybe three minutes so it starts to absorb the batter, just so it absorbs a little bit. Because you like it a little crunchy.

— You could even throw a few raw nuts in there.

Aajonus: Yes. But it might cause a little diarrhea, that combination with the apples and the nuts don’t digest too well together. Sprinkled on top anyway. If they were ground up in a crust, it’s a little different with the apples.

— What about making a crust like that with some ground coconut and ground seeds?

Aajonus: I’ve always found that coconut doesn’t stay stable. It has a tendency to rancidify when I’ve made it into a crust.

— Even if you are going to eat it right away?

Aajonus: Even if you eat it right away. It starts oxidizing it immediately. I don’t know if it’s the reaction with the nuts. It must be. Because...

— Coconut oil lasts a long time.

Aajonus: But when it’s with the nut there must be an enzyme that reacts with the nut and it rancidifies, within minutes. It usually takes about ten minutes after they are mixed together. So if you can make it and eat it quicker than ten minutes. (Aajonus laughs.)

— What about just seeds then and some dates?

Aajonus: Seeds and dates. That’s the crust I gave you before. Half almonds. Half either pecans or nuts. A couple of tablespoons of butter.

— And sprouted wheat berries wouldn’t be good either?

Aajonus: Turns rancid right away. Even if they are germinated they will turn rancid right away.

— This honey you are talking about — can you get it right here at this market?

Aajonus: You can get it at the coop.

[Pause in the tape]

[Recipe] So you take a gallon of unheated clover honey that’s very liquid and you add some of the crystallized clover honey, about a cup to a gallon. So remove a cup of the gallon and put a cup of this in, and put it in the refrigerator. You can stir it around a little bit. It will help it react faster. And within six months you will have a crystallized honey.

— So you have to wait that long.

Aajonus: It takes that long. Might be easier to buy it.

— Do you keep your honey refrigerated?

Aajonus: Oh, never.

— And can I get this in Hollywood.

Aajonus: Nowhere. Used to be Erewhon. Nowhere might have it. You can call and ask. Gooch’s.

— Gooch’s got bought out by Whole Foods.

Aajonus: Yes, but they are still called Gooch’s.

[Pause in the tape]

Aajonus: The first circle, pattern, it should be a circle, which should be spiked or prolapsed or constricted or expanded. That relates to the digestive tract.

— Which encompasses what he calls the stomach ring as well as what he’s got as the next ring out.

Aajonus: Correct.

— You classify all of that in the same area.

Aajonus: Then the next area is blood. Then the next area is muscle. The next is bone, then lymph and then skin.

— Okay. But you don’t...

Aajonus: I don’t go along with these patterns.

— He is calling these things other things. Right?

Aajonus: Right.

— But it looks to me like this first segment takes up so much of the iris that what is left, it would be hard to divide it into four more concentric circles.

Aajonus: That’s why I don’t divide it into four circles.

— But you just gave me four.

Aajonus: Yes, but it’s very thin. The blood is a very thin circle around it. The muscle takes up most of it, if they have any muscle.

— I don’t see it necessarily as circles, except for that first one around the pupil. You don’t see circular...

Aajonus: Yes. Right. But that’s what I am saying. The muscle takes up most of it. Unless they just don’t have any muscle. Then you will just see a lot of lesions.

— So basically wherever the lesion is or the discoloration, based on how far it is in or out tells you whether it’s muscle or blood. You won’t necessarily see any kind of circular pattern except in that first layer. It will be either circular or jagged. So that indicates that he has got a real toxic digestion... and it’s funny, because he eats like nobody you’ve ever seen. He can eat four main dishes at a sitting. And he’s thin and muscular. He makes this beautiful furniture. He just makes everything with his hands. He’s half Japanese, half Caucasian. He can’t put on weight no matter how much he eats.

Aajonus: He’s not digesting his food (Inaudible.)

— Not assimilating. Because he would be putting on weight if he were, wouldn’t he?

Aajonus: Well, it depends. Is he high adrenalin? Hyperactive individual?

[Pause in the tape]

— Okay, so here we are.

Aajonus: The last day. Twelfth day of April, 1996.

— The first thing I wanted to ask you. I noticed that on the top of the recipe you are writing to that couple, Marie and somebody. And You asked them to send pictures of the tumors. And I want to know, of course, what it is that you are going to look for in those pictures.

Aajonus: Well I just want a record.

— Breast tumors?

Aajonus: Yes. Breast, under the arm, armpit. I just want a record of... they can’t tell me whether it is shrinking or growing or what. So I wanted a record of them and I wanted to see the degree of the tumors, the look of them.

— So it’s mostly for comparisons sake for the future. It’s not that you determine anything by looking at them.

Aajonus: No.

— What hair products do you use? Shampoo and conditioner.

Aajonus: None.

— You don’t use any hair products. Do you put anything on your hair at all?

Aajonus: Yes, I wash my hair. I blend an egg, a whole egg, about ten strawberries, unless they are real big, then it’s like five or six, a tablespoon of honey and milk to fill that ten ounce canning jar. I blend that until it’s warm.

— Five minutes?

Aajonus: No, it usually takes about three minutes maybe. And then I pour some of it off into a little four ounce canning jar for my hair. Then I put a teaspoon of the clay in it and I blend it again for about a minute. Then I use that as my soap.

— For your body?

Aajonus: With the clay, because if I put it on the hair, it makes the hair too dry. So I take the stuff, the mix that I haven’t put clay in and I use that for my hair.

— To wash my hair. And it conditions it too.

Aajonus: Right.

— And nothing else.

Aajonus: Well, sometimes it’s still a little dry, so I will take a little butter, just a little amount of my palm, rub it there and then do the back of my hands, so it’s just a very little film and I will spray my hair a little bit and then rub the butter in?

— Spray it with (Inaudible.)

Aajonus: Yes.

— But the other mix actually cleans it?

Aajonus: Yes.

— But it doesn’t lather or anything. It just cleans it.

Aajonus: Right.

— And you just rub it in for a minute or so and then washes it off.

Aajonus: No, I always take baths. So I hang around in the bath for a while. So I rub it in my scalp and I will leave it in for ten minutes sometimes. Then rinse it off.

— And the clay portion you use for the whole body.

Aajonus: Yes.

— So the clay helps pull out impurities.

Aajonus: Anything yes.

— You just put in on and then wash it off.

Aajonus: Well, I stand up in the bath and I put it all over my body so by the time I am ready to shave. I will have that on my face right away with the clay on it and everything and by the time I finish, I am ready to shave. So I will shave and I will get down in the bath and I take a brush to get the circulation going and then I put that mixture on my hair and just lie in the tub and enjoy myself for half an hour to an hour.

— And every four days or so you use the mask that you’ve already given me.

Aajonus: No, that’s actually what I use. That mix.

— Every day.

Aajonus: No. I only take a bath every three or four days. I don’t recommend that for people who haven’t been on a good raw diet for a while.

— So you don’t need a bath every day.

Aajonus: No. I don’t exercise. If I were exercising, I am sure it would be different.

— Right. That’s a question I don’t have down here, but as long as you brought it up. Do you not feel that even a little bit of basic aerobic exercise — I am not talking about muscle building exercise necessarily — but just aerobic exercise for the heart and lungs, would be useful for you?

Aajonus: I think that anybody that wants to exercise should. It’s good for them. But I don’t have a high adrenalin. I don’t have all that excess hormone that I need to burn up.

— Well, what about just to exercise the heart muscle and the lung, the breathing muscles and all that?

Aajonus: I am sure it’s helpful. But to me it’s not a necessity. The body stays in good repair and everything if you are on a good diet. When I started off on the diet, of course, I did exercising. I needed it. I still had overactive glands. And when I started eating the meat I felt, wow, I can do all kinds of things. So I started running. And I went from one mile to thirteen miles a day. Doing handstand pushups, thirty to fifty a day. And fifty regular pushups. And I was just doing a lot of things. And I did that for a year and a half and I started fasting and that was just about it. I stopped doing everything after the fast.

— Okay, talking about fasting. Do you ever find a reason or a need to put somebody on a mono diet on this program, like to eat nothing but meat for three days, or nothing but one or two substances?

Aajonus: Well, only during flus or colds, I will have some people eat nothing but the smoothies. It’s a combination of the eggs and banana or eggs and orange juice, cream if they have it, and the honey if they want the honey in it.

— During the flu?

Aajonus: Yes. Flu or cold.

— And anything you make with egg, including your soap, you are going to have to throw it away because it is not going to last very long.

Aajonus: You need to eat it within eight hours, unless it’s ice cream. You can keep that up to twenty-four.

— Is there any particular formula that you use to give somebody an energy lift?

Aajonus: Yes. The coffee substitute.

— The one in the book. What is the shelf life of raw, fertile eggs prior to breaking them. In the fridge.

Aajonus: You don’t keep them in the fridge.

— You don’t?!

Aajonus: No. No. No. It says explicitly in the book. It says explicitly, "Do not put your eggs in the refrigerator because it destroys the enzymes and then the salmonella grows faster. So...

— But in the market they refrigerate them

Aajonus: Well, I get them right from the farmer right now. So they are never refrigerated. But when I got them from the market I didn’t re-refrigerate them. When they defrost as you go home, or warm up and if you go and put them in the refrigerator again, then they really turn.

— So, get them at the farmers’ market as much as possible, because we go to the farmers’ market. Free range, raw, fertile eggs. And how long will they last then on the shelf?

Aajonus: As long as the room stays below ninety degrees, they will last anywhere from three to six weeks. And you should eat them... I eat two dozen a week.

— Really?

Aajonus: Oh easily. I have clients that eat eighteen a day during different periods. And the instinct therapy guy talks about people who eat forty a day. I think you are the one that told me that. (Aajonus laughs.)

— A guy ate six pounds of pistachios.

Aajonus: Oh God. Gas galore. I wouldn’t want to be in a room with him.

— Let’s talk about raw milk. Dairy is an unfamiliar terrain for me. We went through kefir, we went through cream. All the ways of using it, when you use each. How does raw milk fit into that then?

Aajonus: How so?

— Can you pretty much use it... We know that the kefir has a specific function, the cream is more soothing. Where does the milk fit in in that range of usage?

Aajonus: Well, rather than drink water, I would prefer people drink milk with honey blended in it.

— Or with a little carob powder even for chocolate milk?

Aajonus: It’s better that they have cream in it if they are going to do that.

— Add the cream with the carob?

Aajonus: Yes. Because the carob is full of pectin and it just draws up the fats and then it causes the minerals to cake in your body. It’s more difficult to digest. The carob powder draws some of the fats in and...

— So it satisfies itself on the cream and allows the milk to do what it’s ...

Aajonus: Well, the milk needs cream to work. But if you only have enough cream for the pectin to draw up then you’ve got none left to help utilize the minerals. And minerals cannot be utilized without fats.

— Now, when you say milk needs cream.

Aajonus: It needs the natural amount of cream which is anywhere from twelve to twenty-two percent.

— You mean whole milk.

Aajonus: Yes.

— Oh. You weren’t talking about adding cream to the milk all this time.

Aajonus: Yes, I am if you were talking about adding carob to it.

— And the reason you are adding that is to give the carob something...

Aajonus: ... to react with. So that you will have enough cream left to digest the minerals properly.

— The cream in the milk to digest the minerals in the milk. What’s the difference between how they prepare kefir and how they prepare yogurt? I know that the yogurt is heated, but then how do they get the culture to grow in the kefir. How is the process different?

Aajonus: They don’t heat it at all. They take the grains. Of course they put gelatin to thicken it. They start with milk, they add cream, add raw cream to it, because the milk that you buy like the whole milk is really skimmed milk. So they add it back because the bulgaricus is the one that pre-digests the fat and if there is not enough fat then that enzyme dies in there, the bulgaricus.

— So they take milk and add cream to it. The cream provides the bacteria.

Aajonus: And what they do is take their old starter, their kefir that is already growing and they add a cup back to... actually a gallon to a vat. And they let it stand. Certain temperatures and they regulate it just so it grows perfectly.


Aajonus: The yogurt will not be thicker, any thicker, than kefir unless you cook the milk, heat the milk.

— Well, then what’s the difference between yogurt and kefir?

Aajonus: Yogurt is usually one strain of bacteria. Kefir is all three, so everything digests properly.

— But when you buy yogurt it seems to have a thicker consistency than kefir, which is liquid.

Aajonus: Right. Because they have taken the milk, they have heated it, caused everything not to be a whole, live product anymore. So when the yogurt bacteria eat it, it swells up.

— Because of the heating. And that’s really the only reason that they make yogurt is just to provide something of a different consistency, I guess.

Aajonus: Yes.

— So, apart from the heating, the kefir is a healthier product because it has more strains in it.

Aajonus: Right. And also it’s not cooked, if you are having raw kefir. So everything is alive and active. Whereas kefir, it’s mostly dead except for the bacteria that’s feeding on damaged food and that’s why it swells up and bloats.

— And only get plain because the fruit in there is from concentrate and we don’t want concentrate.

Aajonus: Yes. Those sugars, even though they are concentrates from fruit, they are disaccharides again, so they destroy the bacteria.

— Right. Because they’ve been heated. I forget what you said about using like lime and lemon juice in sauce or the mayonnaise to mix with a meat dish. Is that inadvisable to use any kind of even a little lemon juice for seasoning or flavoring?

Aajonus: In that small amount when you are eating it with the butter and eggs, it will bind with the butter and eggs. It won’t go for the protein in the meat.

— But you wouldn’t but a little lime juice right on the meat or anything.

Aajonus: Not on beef.

— Or fish?

Aajonus: Yes. On fish it’s okay. But not on beef and not on lamb.

— Do you ever drink lemon water or lime water?

Aajonus: Yes. I did last night. I will squeeze a lime in a little four ounce, six ounce canning jar or eight ounce and then I will add an equal amount of honey so if the juice comes out to two ounces, with the honey in there it’s four ounces, and then I will put a little cream in there or I will wait and I will hold out the cream and I will blend that together. And then I also put anywhere from a half a teaspoon to a whole teaspoon of vinegar in it and then I will blend that altogether and then I will pour in about an ounce to two ounces of raw cream and then I will add about four ounces of bubbly water, naturally carbonated water, and very gently stir it up and drink it.

— And that’s for the purpose of?

Aajonus: It’s just a delicious drink.

— And the vinegar? It’s okay? The vinegar doesn’t sort of ruin the taste?

Aajonus: No, not at all. In fact, it makes it like a tangy root beer or something.

— Like ginger ale.

Aajonus: Ginger ale. Yes. And that’s just like the coffee substitute, only you put the vanilla extract in for the coffee substitute.

— And you use apple cider vinegar to create an alkaline situation, I mean using that as a medicine?

Aajonus: Yes, I usually use it just as a medicine to alkalinize somebody, especially if they are a hyperactive person and if they have candida, something like that, they have stored a lot of acidity in their body.

— So apple cider vinegar is okay? Because on a candida diet generally there is no vinegar of any kind. That’s what they say.

Aajonus: Because it’s pasteurized and a problem.

— So, it’s like the honey. In its raw form, it’s okay. And the candida won’t feed on it?

Aajonus: No, because it will go in and it’s ‘like attracts like’;, it will start destroying it.

— The candida?

Aajonus: Eating up those pockets, pools of ...

— So that’s another thing that a candida person should have, plenty of apple cider vinegar.

Aajonus: It’s in the book, I’m sure.

— That’s an old remedy too, an old healing remedy, apple cider vinegar, honey and water every day, a couple of tablespoons.

Aajonus: I think Bragg was into that heavily.

— And Christopher too. What brand of pasta do you use?

Aajonus: They are in that list I gave you.

— And it’s basically... you don’t want then whole wheat pasta. You want just regular, again, unbleached...

Aajonus: Unfortified.

— White...

Aajonus: It doesn’t have to be white, because if it’s white, it’s bleached. It should be off white.

— Right. But no spinach, no ...

Aajonus: ... carrot, no artichoke. None of that.

— Just grain.

Aajonus: Yes, or potato.

— And pasta and meat mixed together?

Aajonus: Wonderful.

— Meat goes with almost everything except fruit as a food combination in this form.

Aajonus: Yes. Sweet fruit. It goes with bland fruit, but not sweet fruit.

— You mean you can...

Aajonus: Tomatoes, zucchini, cucumbers, all of those will go with meat.

— But not your apples and things like that.

Aajonus: Not your apples, not your sweeter citrus fruits.

— None of what we consider fruits. Because most people don’t consider cucumber and tomato fruits even though technically they are. Why does pasteurized dairy produce mucous? I get it within seconds. And raw dairy not produce mucous?

Aajonus: When you pasteurize it, you destroy the fats. So the body... remember I said that the body makes about sixty varieties of cholesterols. A third of them will lubricate on a person who is optimally sound and healthy, a third will be produced as lubrication, a third will be produced as detoxifiers and a third as fuel [sic]. In our polluted and unhealthy bodies, up to eighty percent can be used as chelation to bind with toxins, and the rest for lubrication and still may not have enough to have fuel. That’s why I say eat a lot of fat, so you can take care of that. Well, when you pasteurize the milk or cook it even, you have destroyed the fat. You have made it a substance that is no longer live, has no enzyme activity. So the body tries to form it into a chelation fat. And when it chelates, it doesn’t chelate properly. So the body tries to throw it off, so it builds it into mucous. To get rid of it.

— So that’s again the enzymes primarily.

Aajonus: Yes. Lack of them.

— If you were in a situation where some serious viral epidemic was occurring, like Ebola or something like that, what would you do? Would you submit to antibiotic, or ozone or any of the things that are used in those situations?

Aajonus: You mean if I were handling people who were not on a healthy diet?

— Yes, that’s one question. Or if somebody that were on this diet and had been for a while was suddenly...

Aajonus: It wouldn’t affect them?

— It wouldn’t affect them?! In other words...

Aajonus: It couldn’t thrive in their body.

— Really?

Aajonus: Just like the syphilis couldn’t thrive in that person’s — Bryon’s,- body. And that’s a rough one.

— Syphilis?

Aajonus: Yes. It’s a rough one.

— It couldn’t be any rougher than Ebola.

Aajonus: About the same probably.

— Internal hemorrhaging. Then there’s that bacteria, the flesh eating bacteria. Remember that one in England. An inch an hour! And so none of that would thrive.

Aajonus: No.

— Because of the high fat content of the tissues.

Aajonus: Yes. And the strength of the proteins in the body. Your immune system would just neutralize it. However, let’s say somebody hasn’t been on the diet that long and they are exposed to it and it does take a hold in their system. Have them drink lots of beet juice. Beet juice, about two ounces every two to three hours. Lots of cheese with it. Have them have some flax oil. Probably one tablespoon every three or four hours. The beet juice has the hydrochloric acid, so that helps dissolve any matter that has formed in the system. Helps dissolve it. That’s what the body uses it for.

It’s like I had a girlfriend one time that got stung by a scorpion. I told her to take fresh raw corn, chew it up a little bit and put in on the area and the hydrochloric acid in there would draw it out.

Another person was bit by a rattlesnake. I told him to put that on locally and drink lots of beet juice, because hydrochloric acids do neutralize snake poison.

Neutralizes just about anything if they body has good, raw hydrochloric acid, is fed it. And the beet is high in that. And so is corn. Raw corn. The starchier the better too. I remember when I would go travel outdoors, I would go pick the feed corn instead of the regular human corn. (Aajonus laughs.) I would eat the corn that the cows ate, but when it’s fresh on the stalk, it’s not like rock hard. And it’s very starchy and very delicious and very filling. It’s even higher in the hydrochloric acid. So I would use the beet juice to provide the hydrochloric acids to neutralize the foreign matter that’s in there. I use it as an anti-biotic at any time, anti-viral. And I do it not to kill the virus, but to keep it at a lower level so that somebody is not going through such a tremendous detox that they can’t make it through it.

— Anti-fungal too?

Aajonus: Yes.

— And then the other things you add to that...

Aajonus: The flax oil is to provide anoil which has the properties to be able to prevent pathogens from growing, manifesting, and flax oil is pretty good for that. It also acts, because it’s from a seed, like all seeds, they have that property which prevents reproduction. And the body knows where to use it and when not to use it. If it’s a healthy, sound body, the body will take this and then start presenting it in a serum to certain proliferating or possibly proliferating bacteria that have grown in the system.

— And what’s the other thing that you said to put in there? Beet, flax seed oil and there was something else. Was it cream?

Aajonus: Well, yeah, lots of fat. Whatever it is. Butter, cream. Whatever you have available.

— Again to draw out the dead...

Aajonus: Oh cheese. Cheese. For the sponging.

— And so with the cheese, butter.

Aajonus: Yes. It isn’t all that necessary that you have to have butter with it. It’s just that when you are eating the cheese, it’s best to eat the cheese with the hydrochloric acids, because the hydrochloric acid will cause a mineral drop and it will make you sensitive to pain and it could cause tooth aches, all kinds of things. Having too much hydrochloric acid, too much beet juice. So you eat the cheese with it. Cheese provides a phenomenal amount of concentrated minerals. So you eat the cheese with the hydrochloric acid, the beet juice, you have a twofold protection against the mineral drop from the beet juice and you also have the absorption ability of the cheese.

— Right. So the hydrochloric acid in the beet juice will affect the minerals. It will change their chemical composition or what?

Aajonus: No, a lot of times when hydrochloric is used to neutralize the hydrochloric acid once it’s done its work minerals bind to it to kind of sponge it up.

— Which make the minerals unavailable for (Inaudible.)

Aajonus: Right, for nerve function or anything like that. And then if the nerves don’t have minerals, they have a tendency to swell up and cause pain. And if anybody has a sensitive area or detoxing area, they already have swelling there anyway. And more swelling will create pain, discomfort.

— And so the cheese has more minerals than the butter.

Aajonus: Yes. Butter doesn’t have that many minerals. Cheese does.

— But cheese taken by itself can be constipating, can’t it?

Aajonus: Yes.

— So, the butter again. Mix the butter in with it?

Aajonus: No, because if you are having the cheese with the juice, you have the minerals and the fluids necessary to handle the cheese so that it doesn’t cause constipation.

— What about the cheese with honey accomplishing something similar? Would that accomplish something similar?

Aajonus: Yes. It will do the same thing. But we are talking about the use of beet juice as an anti-bacterial.

— Right. No, I was off on the next thing which was just using cheese in general, offsetting that...

Aajonus: ... with honey, with butter, with any kind of fluid. Juices.

— There are more enzymes in butter, though, than in cheese.

Aajonus: Yes. Live enzymes. Active enzymes, yes.

— And why is there more minerals in the cheese? What is it about the process?

Aajonus: Because milk is full of minerals and as it dehydrates, the minerals attach to the proteins and the fats, so all you have is just a fluid whey. But when you have the cream, you are separating the cream from the whey, from the milk, most of the protein and the minerals.

— So milk is high.

Aajonus: In minerals, yes.

— And cream is not. Okay, so the cream and the butter are not, and the milk and the kefir are.

Aajonus: Right. And cheese.

— When you eat something like corn, you juice most of your vegetables, but you don’t juice corn.

Aajonus: Corn is not a vegetable.

— You consider that a fruit. So you just eat that straight like a fruit.

Aajonus: Yes. You can butter it if you want too. But it’s so sweet, you don’t need to.

— Can you mix that with other fruit too?

Aajonus: You can mix it with anything you want?

— I mean with apples?

Aajonus: Yes.

— If you are making a fruit salad, put corn in it.

Aajonus: Yes. If you want.

— And avocado goes well with that too.

Aajonus: I love avocado, corn and egg together. I take an egg, and I will mash the avocado, mix the egg and the avocado together and take bites of that with corn. Good! (Aajonus laughs.) Take a bite of the corn and then take a spoon of the mix. I remember when I used to make the cottage cheese, I would take avocado, raw egg in the raw cottage cheese and eat that with corn. Heaven.

— But you don’t do the raw cottage cheese anymore.

Aajonus: It’s a lot of hassle, so I just don’t do it.

— You would make it you mean. How did you make the raw cottage cheese?

Aajonus: All you do it just let it sit in the refrigerator until it completely separates. The whey goes to the bottom and everything else goes to the top and it curdles.

— What do you let sit?

Aajonus: Just the whole milk. You just add some extra cream to it, of course, unless you actually get the whole milk without being skimmed. Just put it in the refrigerator in a glass container and just let it sit in there until it separates.

— The raw whole milk.

Aajonus: Yes. What I will usually do is I will take a little bit of the white clover honey and I will blend about a tablespoon in a cup and then I will pour that back into my whole, larger container of milk. And I use glass because that works a little better. And I will just let it sit in the refrigerator until it completely separates.

— And just pour off the excess and what you’ve got is cottage cheese. No salt.

Aajonus: Right. And the honey keeps it from getting too soured and also keeps it sweeter, like the salt makes it sweeter.

— How long does that take?

Aajonus: Could be anywhere from two to four days. And then I pour it into a cheesecloth.

— And that whey that comes off. Is that useful for something?

Aajonus: I feed it to the plants.

— Rice cakes. There is no gluten in rice is there?

Aajonus: No, but it has a heavy starch, which is similar to gluten.

— I was trying to understand why you wouldn’t treat rice like potato. Why you couldn’t cook rice and use it as a glutinous starch.

Aajonus: I said you could.

— Oh, it’s the other grains that you would just soak overnight and eat them slightly crunchy. So, it’s okay to cook rice but not the other grains. Rye, millet, buckwheat.

Aajonus: No. It’s getting to be different concentrations of fat and protein. Higher concentrations.

— Okay, so there is minimum fat in rice.

Aajonus: Yes. Also when you do that you are looking at a germ in it and you are looking at the bran on it. That’s why I say, if you are going to cook it, it’s best to have it refined.

— Okay, so we are talking white rice primarily.

Aajonus: Yes.

— And basmati rice is not refined.

Aajonus: The rices, their hull has a tendency to break down easier than the other grains. The hull on wheat and rye is very rough and very sharp. And the germ, of course, has its own sheath.

— Yeah. And millet separates down very quickly. But there’s not much gluten in millet.

Aajonus: No. Goats won’t even...

— That was amazing.

Aajonus: I was amazed, because you’ve got this analysis that’s a phenomenal food...

— Yeah. Man can live on it alone.

Aajonus: Bull. It’s so much bull. It’s theoretical. Nobody has tried it. Except I tried those things that they say, you know. (Aajonus laughs.)

— So if you are going to cook a grain, make it rice and make it either a processed white rice, but brown rice is still okay, basmati rice. What do you put on your pasta dishes generally? A little raw butter and maybe some garlic.

Aajonus: No, it all depends. Sometimes I will put olive oil. I will take some olive oil and will slice up some garlic and put it in there, and some clove.

— After it’s cooked?

Aajonus: No. I will put it in a bottle of olive oil. And you know, like they do. They put herbs in the olive oil and then I will just pour that on my pasta. I mostly like my tomato recipe with meat.

— But you could just crunch up some garlic and put olive oil and garlic over the pasta. Let the pasta cool to the four second rule.

Aajonus: And you can also just take butter and melt it down and blend it with herbs if you like. I have used bay, dill, basil leaves. All fresh. Blend them in the butter and you’ve got that taste. And even mints. I’ve used mint in it as well, had a mint sauce with it.

— Rice cakes don’t act nearly as well as any of the other starches for that binding effect, I would imagine.

Aajonus: Yes. Actually it’s pretty good.

— Bottled apple juice is out.

Aajonus: Absolutely. It’s all pasteurized.

— I mean if you are in a hurry and you want to make some kind of a blended drink. I guess you should use naturally carbonated water. Is there anything you shouldn’t mix naturally carbonated water with?

Aajonus: No, you can mix it with anything.

— Well, sometimes you are in a hurry and you don’t have time to make fresh apple juice.

Aajonus: Well, then juice a batch, put some honey in it and leave it in the fridge so you can...

— That is so great. And that will last for days.

Aajonus: A couple of days, yes. Two or three days. Apples have a tendency to ferment quickly. The honey will slow that process down towards cider. So you have about two or three days with the apple.

— What about apple cider?

Aajonus: It’s fine.But no hot apple cider.

All right. Blending honey. Even when I sort of add it as the last ingredient, very often a lot of it comes out below the blade in there. It just sort of sits down there. Especially this star thistle, which is very similar in its texture to the Natural Rush clover. How do you get it to really blend altogether?

Aajonus: Well, get the smaller jars because the pressure gets everything working. But when you have the large it’s got plenty of room to swish around here and there and there’s no pressure to maintain the momentum.

— I am assuming that you never have cold drinks, or rarely.

Aajonus: Yes. During the summer when it’s really hot.

— So you use ice.

Aajonus: Yes. But I will take my good water and make ice cubes with my good water. That’s fine.

— You mean the Black Mountain spring?

Aajonus: Yes.

— Because what you have in your big one? What is that again?

Aajonus: That’s healthyish Mid-Mount Palomar water. It’s from down in San Diego. What they’ve done with that water is they put a little bit of chlorine in it just to ship it up. Then to remove the chlorine they use a little ionization to pull that out because the amount that they put in starts attaching to certain minerals, so they pull out those minerals, they’ve removed the chlorine.

— And you just use that for non-consumption.

Aajonus: I use it to wash fruits and vegetables.

— Brush your teeth.

Aajonus: No.

— You use tap water for everything else. For bathing?

Aajonus: Yes. But I draw my bath. (Remedy.) I put about a quarter of a cup of vinegar in it, and then I put a little sea salt in it, a tablespoon to two tablespoons. I let it sit for about ten minutes. I do my strawberry mix. Sometimes I use in-season fruits, peaches instead of strawberries, or apricots instead of strawberries and it’s a wonderful smell. And I will pour about two ounces of that in the bath and let it sit again for five minutes. So it’s all neutralized, all the chemicals in the water before I get in it.

— The apple cider vinegar does that and the salt?

Aajonus: Yes.

— Well, I know about salt and sodium baths, we do that a lot. Also use Clorox baths to detoxify chemical residues and even radiation.

Aajonus: Very harmful.

— Well, people feel that no other bleach, just Clorox, that it’s got a unique property.

Aajonus: Yes, but it’s got chloroform in it also and it’s a gas that it puts off. It’s a real problem.

— Raw sausages.

Aajonus: You’re a Jew. What do you mean? (Aajonus laughs.) The other side of you should slap yourself.

— Italian. Italian.

Aajonus: Italian Jew. You see yourself fighting with yourself. "You can’t do that! Yes, I can!" You can take any kind of meat...

— Like if you walk into Wild Oats.

Aajonus: No. No.

— They make the sausages with natural turkey and so on. I am talking about turkey and chicken sausages mostly.

Aajonus: But they are heated.

— I didn’t know that.

Aajonus: They blanch it, which means cooking it half way. But you can make your own. All you have to do is take the dill, the herbs whatever you like and grind them.

— And mix them with the raw beef or mix them with the turkey or whatever. And then you’d have to put them in a little shell of some kind. A skin.

Aajonus: Yes. And you just stick them in the fridge and let them age there like that to really draw out the flavors and leave them overnight, a day, twenty-four hours, forty-eight hours if you like.

— You could make meat balls and let them sit that way. What about marinating it in some kind of combination of apple cider vinegar and something else?

Aajonus: Not good to mix apple cider vinegar with beef or lamb or any red meat. It causes a gaseous reaction. Swelling in the stomach, gas.

— But if you had it in a salad dressing again, and if you are using that other salad and you are having that with beef, that’s different.

Aajonus: If you are having a starch with it.

— Because the salad dressing has apple cider vinegar.

Aajonus: Yeah, but usually I don’t tell people to eat... I tell them to stay away from vinegar at that time. So they should make a salad dressing that doesn’t have vinegar in it if they are going to eat it with beef.

— Oh. That’s good to know because that is one of the standard good food combinations is to have beef with salad.

Aajonus: Yes. But not with vinegar in the salad. If you are having a starch, you could get away with it. Potato, or a piece of bread, half a piece of bread. That will absorb... and you are eating that, or even if you take a slice of your French bread and you cut it up and make your croutons and toast them. That will absorb the apple cider vinegar.

— What dressing can you think of without the apple cider vinegar, if you wanted a dressing for the salad? You could use egg, you could use honey, you could use herbs.

Aajonus: You could use lemon and avocado.

— You could even blend in some walnuts, couldn’t you?

Aajonus: Yes. If you want to. You could make a mayonnaise.

— Without the apple cider vinegar.

Aajonus: Well, you could make a tartar sauce using the pickles as long as you are blending it, you are making a tartar sauce with the butter in it and the eggs, because that will bind with it. Because that will bind with it.

— And you mean you already pickled pickling cucumbers. Mix that in with the egg and the butter.

Aajonus: Then you’ve got a tartar sauce. You’ve got the vinegar there, but it’s already absorbed into a food.

— Into the pickling cucumbers.

Aajonus: Right. And when that’s mixed with the egg/butter combination of the mayonnaise, then you have a tartar sauce. So that’s really bound.

— What about ... there are some of these machines where you can just take vegetables, throw them in and actually make your salad into a drink, blending the vegetables instead of juicing them. Does that break down the cellulose sufficiently?

Aajonus: No. Vitamix Two Thousand. Very often within one minute of blending that’s already heated up to one hundred forty degrees.

— Do you have to do it for one minute though. That works pretty quick?

Aajonus: I’ve seen people constantly cook their juice. It’s not safe.

— Juicing a carrot, you know, if you are doing a whole bunch of carrots. It’s never heating?

Aajonus: In a Champion juicer you would have to run it through two or three times to get the heat up that high.

— But if you put almonds through there ...

Aajonus: You are going to heat it up within...

— (Inaudible.)

Aajonus: Also, it’s dry so it doesn’t move through as quickly.

— And it just takes a few seconds of that temperature to do it. What about rejuvalac?

Aajonus: No.

— Why? Because we thought it would be a good digestive aid. A lot of B vitamins and so on.

Aajonus: It’s towards decomposition though. It’s not... it’s a digestive enzyme which helps people that don’t eat raw foods because they don’t have any digestive enzymes anyway.

— And it’s grain based.

Aajonus: Yes. But still, all of that bacteria is to help something decompose rather to help it disassemble and be re-utilized. It’s there to melt it down to be used as fertilizer basically for plants and the earth.

— And you are already doing that with the enzymes so you don’t need.

Aajonus: Well, with the enzymes and your raw food you disassemble the molecule and reconstruct it. You are not melting it and dissolving it to be totally used as something else.

— What about freezing fruit to run it through the Champion to make that kind of ice cream if you ever?

Aajonus: That’s fine. I recommend that.

— It doesn’t destroy the enzymes?

Aajonus: Barely. Fruit you can do that with.

— Freezing meat, it’s not that kind of thing.

Aajonus: Freezing meat will destroy it.

— And fruit won’t.

Aajonus: No. It doesn’t work the same way.

— Because of the fat in the meat.

Aajonus: Well, the properties of protein and the properties of fat. That’s why I say you need to eat your ice cream within twenty-four hours.

— But it’s okay to freeze the fruit and have it there for a week or two.

Aajonus: Yes.

— Ice cream?

Aajonus: I’ve got the old Salton. I found it at a garage sale a year ago. I was so happy, because I had one where you crank. I paid five bucks for it. They don’t make them anymore.

— The beauty is when you can use cream and dairy, you don’t need to freeze the fruit. You can just add fresh fruit right to the ice cream. And vanilla.

Aajonus: And you don’t even need the vanilla.

— Well, I love the flavor of vanilla ice cream.

Aajonus: Try the one I recommend in there with the papaya without the vanilla because it tastes like a French vanilla without using the vanilla.

— Okay. Basically on the raw cream, the kefir and the milk, you just follow the date on there as far as your shelf life? Does it last longer usually?

Aajonus: Yes.

— How do you know when it’s off? From the smell?

Aajonus: Smell. The taste will be a little bitter.

— So, it usually lasts about a week beyond the date?

Aajonus: It depends upon the temperature of the milk in the refrigerator.

— Do you keep your refrigerator pretty cold?

Aajonus: No. I don’t keep it as cold as most people keep theirs. Right around forty-eight degrees is what I say in the book to keep it at.

— Did you find the address of the glandular company?

Aajonus: No, but I found that piece of paper, and it was Nutrapack, by Prima Vera Labs or something like that.

— We were using their natural thyroid for a while.

Aajonus: Yes. That’s the one. Tablets.

— Because Sally had Hashimoto’s at one point.

Aajonus: I don’t know what that is.

— Hashimoto’s is an autoimmune disease of the thyroid, the name, where the body is attacking the thyroid gland.

Aajonus: (Aajonus laughs.) Attacking! Detoxing the thyroid gland.

— For some reason. But it’s actually building up antibodies against the thyroid, shutting down the thyroid.

Aajonus: Yes. Well, it shuts it down while it takes it apart and cleans it out. They used to do that with my clients who had liver damage and all of a sudden they would find all of these liver cells in the blood and freak out and then freak my clients out. It had nothing to do with the fact that it was getting rid of the dead cells. Of course it’s going to do that!

— And so the fat is going to do that now.

Aajonus: Yes. Let’s say they are going to be going through a liver detox or a thyroid detox, you are going to find those tissue in the blood, especially cirrhosed tissue. It’s not going to be dissolved. You are going to be able to identify it as that tissue right away. And, of course, the doctors say, your liver is melting and dissolving away. Watch out. (Aajonus laughs.)

— So, what you are saying is that the body is seeing that thyroid tissue as an antigen, because it’s a foreign object in the blood. It’s not used to seeing that kind of tissue in the blood and it creates an antibody against it. Is that what you are saying is happening?

Aajonus: No.

— Because they are actually making the antibody to the thyroid. So why would the body produce a thyroid antibody?

Aajonus: Because if any of that tissue is starting to dissolve or decompose, then it creates fluids that reacts like a foreign substance.

— That’s what I was saying. So it’s treated as a foreign substance.

Aajonus: Yes. Right.

— So Nutripack then to provide the glandulars that we were talking about. You like their products, the freeze dried glandulars for the liver and prostate and so on.

Aajonus: Yes.

— And generally someone with a thyroid problem, would you have them use their raw thyroid?

Aajonus: Yes.

— Okay, now she’s been on a natural one. Armour was the one for a while. And now we found one that is supposed to be organic and there is only one pharmacy in Marin that has it. And she’s been on a small dose daily. But you would use it the way you described yesterday for a finite period, then get off and let the diet...

Aajonus: To stimulate the thyroid. If you take any kind of thyroxin, T3 or T4 supplement, thyroid is not going to do anything. It’s going to start atrophying. It’s going to shut down. Just like pancreas’ when you take the insulin. You will never get that pancreas back together if it’s deteriorated completely.

— And what about other things like the dulse, which is high in iodine, and the kelp. Again if it’s dry, powdered form.

Aajonus: There is not a lot of enzyme activity in it. The problem is there can be radical minerals which starts breaking it in two.

— So don’t use it.

Aajonus: I would say not often.

— Or the seaweeds. And also the salt. It would be too much salt in it.

Aajonus: Yes. However, there it’s already bound in a good balance so the sodium is really not the problem. It’s having the minerals radical in the system. If you eat it with some kind of a fat and juices it would be fine.

— But for me being a salt freak, it would be better for me, as you said yesterday, to use a little bit of just straight sea salt than to use a sea vegetable.

Aajonus: Well, it depends, if that sea vegetable is cooked. Dehydrated at what temperature? That’s what makes the difference.

— It would have to be sun dried wouldn’t it. So sun dried dulse would probably be okay. I wanted to ask you about colitis and irritable bowel syndrome, if there is anything more on that than what you’ve said.

Aajonus: Cabbage juice.

— Potato juice?

Aajonus: Cabbage.

— What about potato?

Aajonus: If you mix it with something else. If you have it with cheese, with milk or cream, it’s fine. The potato has an enzyme in it which helps. It has lots of vitamin K, but it also has an irritant because it's of the night shade family. So if you have it with cheese and with milk, make it like a potato soup, it’s good. Juicing cabbage and iceberg lettuce is excellent.

— Iceberg, which supposedly has no nutritional value.

Aajonus: It’s because they are comparing it. It’s like saying this guy has these properties and because this one is different and doesn’t have these properties, this one is no good. But yet the iceberg lettuce is the only one that contains opium. It’s a natural endorphin stimulator. They are just looking at it...

— If you want to have salad, that’s okay.

Aajonus: It’s the only kind I can eat. I can’t stand the others. I can’t eat any of them. A little bit of Boston or butter lettuce, I can eat that. But the others I can’t eat.

— What about kale and mustard greens and all of that stuff? The bitter greens? Do you juice those?

Aajonus: Yes, I will juice those. I just can’t handle those, but other people can use them and need them.

— You react to those?

Aajonus: Yes.

— But that’s about the only way you can eat those is juiced. If you steam them, you are already starting to destroy it.

Aajonus: Starting? (Aajonus laughs.)

— Lightly steaming.

Aajonus: No, no, no. Let me see you be lightly steamed. (Aajonus laughs.) At that temperature. You’d last about five seconds.

— In pain. Well, it would probably preserve... Probably just get my skin. My liver would probably be unburned.

Aajonus: But I doubt your lungs would and your skin. So then the rest of you dies anyway so...

— So, the iceberg lettuce juiced, cabbage juiced.

Aajonus: Kefir.

— Mixed with those things?

Aajonus: Yes. You could do that definitely. Lots of honey.

— And that will tend to offset the diarrhea and the irritation of the bowel.

Aajonus: No apples whatsoever. No apple juice. No apple anything. The juice actually stimulates the adrenals and adrenalin forces diarrhea.

— What is it in the apple that is stimulating the adrenals then?

Aajonus: Something in the juice. Some factors in the juice.

— So that’s basically the approach for something like that.

Aajonus: Dates are good. Dates and butter.

— To soothe.

Aajonus: Yes. Soothe the intestines.

— Well, do you want to grab a wino?

Aajonus: Yes.

— Anything else you want to say?


Aajonus: Okay, you just tell me what you see, and I will mark it.

— Okay, this is an iridology diagnosis of Sally. (Pause.) This is the right eye...

Aajonus: Thyroid has a very acidic film throughout the entire right side.

— How do you know it’s acidic?

Aajonus: Because it’s brown from the pupil all the way out.

— Clock it.

Aajonus: From 2:00 to 3:00.

— Okay, because it’s brown all the way out. Toxins, right?

Aajonus: And it affects more than the thyroid. It’s affecting the vocal chords, the trachea, this whole area, all the way in the back.

A third degree lesion about 3:20.

— Third degree.

Aajonus: Yes. Right about here. It’s a darkened area.

— Yes, a small one.

Aajonus: And there is a little white on either side. There’s an infection. Trying to clean it out. Trying to bring it back to life.

— Yes, I see it. It looks like kind of a filament, kind of long.

Aajonus: Yes. Well, there are two filaments on either side of the dark space. But that dark is third degree because you can’t see any fibers in it.

Now I am going to just take you over a general view. You see the fibers coming off between about 7:30 all the way to 9:00, more towards the pupil?

— Yes.

Aajonus: Pretty good health all the way on the inside out to the digestive tract.

— What is all that dark? That whole dark...

Aajonus: That’s what I mean? She’s got second degree lesions.

— All through that area.

Aajonus: All through that area.

— Which is all this.

Aajonus: Everywhere. From the brain all the way down to about here.

— What does that indicate?

Aajonus: That shows that her muscles aren’t very alive.

Sally: That’s for sure. I’ve had an office job for a couple of years, which has been driving me crazy. Fortunately, I don’t have it anymore. I’m coming alive again. — Why does it show that? Because you’ve got all these other organs in there. Why does it show that particularly above... oh, because of the... but it’s not just the muscle band? It seems to be running across.

Aajonus: It goes from the muscle band all the way out.

— So it’s muscle, skin, bone, lymph, all of it that’s affected. In the area of the brain, the head, the neck, the shoulder...

Aajonus: All the way from here, all the way down to right about the liver.

— The upper body. On that side. On the right side.

Aajonus: Yes.

— I think you get more tension on the right upper back, don’t you, than the left? Sally: Yes.

Aajonus: So, after looking at her eyes, how much would you say she is alive on this side of the body?

—On that side? In other words, the whole eye, taking the whole eye into account.

Aajonus: Yes. Knowing that those are second degree lesions and over here she’s got second and third degree lesions and...

— Forty to fifty percent alive. Maybe thirty percent.

Aajonus: Well, I’d say about thirty-five.

— Thirty-five percent. Sally: Doesn’t sound too good.

Aajonus: It isn’t. You’ve been a vegetarian too long.

Sally: A vegetarian?

Aajonus: Yes.

Sally: It’s funny. I’ve never eaten raw meat my whole life. Even as a kid. You know how kids love it. I never went for it. My mouth waters when I see it now. It’s incredible. So surprising.

Aajonus: So you’ll get younger now. Instead of going the other way, you will get younger.

Sally: Sounds good. — She looks good. I mean people can’t believe she’s about to turn fifty.

Aajonus: Oh, she’s beautiful.

— So, now if we look at the... oh, what about that one lesion in the thyroid at 2:30. No, I’m sorry, at 5:30, 6:00 o’clock.

Aajonus: That one that goes down? It’s in the leg area. Sorry. kidneys. The kidney on that side. Kidney and adrenal.

— And you’ve been saying about your kidneys. Sally: I don’t know if it’s my kidneys. But right back in here I’m aware of a sensation a lot of the time. Not an aching exactly, but something close to that. So I just figured it was my kidneys.

Aajonus: Your right kidney and right adrenal aren’t very alive, aren’t functioning very well.

Sally: Sounds right. — They thyroid was in the other eye.

Aajonus: No, we had the thyroid here and it was brown, remember? This whole area was brown. Going all the way down from the vocal chords and trachea. On this side I haven’t seen it yet.

Some infections on the lymph all the way up. Those are good. Cleaning out toxic matter.

You are pretty clean. Just not very much alive.

— Clean as evidenced by the lack of brown?

Aajonus: Yes. This side of the digestive tract is a little more brown. How much cellular life on this side?

— More.

Aajonus: How so?

— Oh. Well, are we saying that all of this over here is lesion?

Aajonus: All around. She’s got second and third degree lesions all around.

— So I’d say, again, it’s about thirty-five or less, twenty-five percent.

Aajonus: I’d say anywhere from twenty-eight to thirty percent.

— When you say she’s...

Aajonus: With the cleanliness of it...

— I thought the brown eventually goes dark, the more toxic a brown spot gets, it will eventually become a lesion, right?

Aajonus: Well, not necessarily. You can be alive and be completely toxic. If the toxin destroys the tissue, then it goes into a lesion.

— So, when it’s a lesion, it’s dead. So if you’re dead and clean it just means what? I am trying to understand what that means.

Aajonus: The tissue that’s alive, that appears alive is clean. It’s very robust, which means the health of that tissue, the health of the tissue that is alive is probably anywhere from seventy-five to eighty percent healthy. So she has very few cells alive, but they are very healthy.

— We need to get them to multiply and go everywhere else.

Aajonus: On both sides. Eighty percent alive. I mean healthy.

— So on a scale of one to ten how is she?

Aajonus: Well, with that much cellular death, and it takes about per year, you can add about two percent. Figure.

— Thirty-five, forty years.

Aajonus: As clean as she is, she could live that long and get healthier as she gets older. So it’s going up instead of down now.

— The thing I was struggling with a little bit was her actual color is the light blue that we see. And then everything that is darker than that is not just a variation on that color, because it should be exactly the same. I didn’t want to admit that.

Aajonus: So the only toxic area, really, is the thyroid, and then the digestive tract. But eat the raw foods and it will take care of that in time.

— So, what would you recommend?

Aajonus: Lots of meat and fish.

Sally: That’s what I feel like having actually.

Aajonus: More meat than fish. Beef.

Sally: Actually, I don’t feel like having fish at all. I thought I would like that. I love sushi. I didn’t like it very much. I just feel like having meat. Steak.

Aajonus: Now, I want you to read her palms. Can we put this on pause?


— Let’s look at the pancreas area in here. It’s not very firm, kind of wrinkled skin and excess skin there, which would indicate underactive pancreas.

Aajonus: Yes. Going to a diabetes. Does diabetes run in your family?

Sally: Somewhere, not in my direct family, but somewhere. Would that make me react to honey? — Not unheated honey.

Aajonus: Not unheated honey. Regular honeys, yes.

Sally: Sometimes if I have it, I just feel a slight headache. Or something in my head. — What we’ve been eating? That stuff we got at home? The star thistle, I’m not sure. I think it’s unheated.

Aajonus: I would say that if it’s affecting you that way, then, because the raw honey is a good insulin replacer. It’s probably keying your brain to start operating your pancreas again.

Sally: Oh. That’s good. — The pancreas on the left side is worse than on the right.

Aajonus: Yes. The right side is a little bit functional.

— And this area, then, when we talk about sexual energy. Is it the degree of roundness?

Aajonus: Yes. And the fullness, and the firmness in the mound of flesh.

— I would say that she has a lot of sexual energy, but it’s depressed.

Aajonus: Yes.

— And I know that that has to do partly with the thyroid.

Aajonus: Well, all of the glands have not have a lot of nutrients. Probably the gland that you have most functional is your sexual gland and it’s probably about half of what it would normally be.

— So, that’s that. And then this isn’t very dry here. There is not... I don’t see many white splotches. The color is pretty even. More white blood cells than red on the left side. Deficient... in fact, I would say there is a somewhat anemic condition.

Aajonus: Not necessarily. It’s pretty balanced.

— It looks white to me here. But then there’s red throughout the fingers.

Aajonus: Yes.

— So that seems pretty okay.

Aajonus: Yes. That’s fine.

— What else?

Aajonus: Adrenal gland.

— I’ve forgotten where that is. Oh, the line. Right. So it’s this, and this. Overactive. All right!

Aajonus: Overactive. Yes.

— Deeper than it should be.

Aajonus: Well, not deeper than it should be. It just shows that she has had an overactive adrenal gland for a lot of her life.

— Otherwise it would just sort of be smooth.

Aajonus: Yes. Smoother. But because it’s, again, getting that fleshy without firmness behind it, shows that on both sides, it’s going toward exhaustion, especially the left adrenal gland is almost exhausted. The right one is okay. It’s fine. And, yet, the adrenal gland on this side.

You notice that when we looked at the eye, it was the right eye that showed that that was functional. But remember I said the left applies to the left and the right applies to the left side of the body on the inside. So you see that actually the right adrenal gland is fine. It’s the left adrenal gland that is not okay.

— So it would be the inside of the right eye that should show that.

Aajonus: Yes. The adrenal glands sit on top of the kidneys. So you have the kidney here and the kidney here with the adrenal gland right on top of them. So which side did we say the adrenal problem was on?

— So one is at 5:30, one is at 6:30.

Aajonus: It’s this eye and this applies to the opposite.

— So it would be the left adrenal.

Aajonus: And here it’s the left adrenal.

— So it does correspond.

Aajonus: But you were having pain in this side?

Sally: Both sides.

Aajonus: That travels sometimes.

So her eyes are right.

Over here there is... well, I don’t know. It’s all of a sudden changed colors. So lots of white splotches all of a sudden that I am seeing. Maybe you just allowed the light to come in.

— That’s why I thought she might be slightly anemic.

Aajonus: Because this one’s cleaner. This one is a lot splotchier. This one has a little jaundice here on this hand. There’s a little bit here. So there is a lot of bile getting into the tissues.

— If you know you’ve got more white on one side, does that mean that the red blood cell production on that side of the body is down?

Aajonus: Yes. Is down. Not transporting oxygen well.

— Big bones on that side aren’t producing as much as they could.

Aajonus: Yes. I can tell your red blood cell count is nice. So you are both a red and white meat eater. Pretty balanced. You can eat both, but I would say for a while, stick with the red.

— But as a character type, though, she’s probably the type. If it comes up red that indicates...

Aajonus: Well, if it comes up white it means her circulation is really poor.

— If you press on the skin and it comes up white.

Aajonus: Yes. You don’t press hard. You only go... I can get anybody’s to stop by pressing hard.

— That means there’s not much pressure behind the blood. We tend to have low blood pressure, vegetarians do.

Aajonus: I know mine sure was. My pulse rate was ... my blood pressure was about ninety-two over sixty and my pulse rate was between sixty-two and forty.

— Wow. I want you to look at his eyes. Look in mine first so you can see sick eyes. And then look at his.

Sally: I noticed his.

— It’s not hazel, it’s like... that’s what it’s supposed to look like. Consistent, all one color. Look how the filaments radiate. You don’t see any brown. You don’t see any big, black...

Sally: And you never see people like that.

Aajonus: No. Not anymore. When I was a child, there were a lot of people like that. But now you just don’t see it. Very rarely.

Sally: It’s very rare to see it. It’s noticeable.

Aajonus: And when I was twenty, my eyes were almost brown. Brown and green.

Sally: Amazing. Bad shape, huh?

Aajonus: I was.

Sally: I know, I started reading your book. — Look how good he looks, though, for fifty.

Sally: Yes, you look great.

— The muscle tone.

Aajonus: And I don’t do anything. It will be seventeen years.

Sally: That’s amazing.

Aajonus: I don’t do anything.

Sally: You don’t do anything?

Aajonus: No. I don’t do anything. I will go roller skating once or twice a month and that’s it.

— You got to know, this alone. Most healers are not representative.

Aajonus: Feel this.

Sally: That’s amazing. — You know how it is. Most psychiatrists are nuts and most chiropractors walk with a cane, dentists have bad breath. Most people are not... I think it’s because they feel they are in control of that area.

Aajonus: They can do anything they want.

— So what would you recommend for Sally.

Aajonus: Just lots of meat and juices. Help get that pancreas going. In fact, to bring them both up, I would suggest anything with inulin in it. Yams. jerusalem artichokes. The juice. Along with some carrot juice.

I can’t tell that any of that cirrhosed tissue, just seeing the firmness of the tissue, nothing is really cirrhosed. So that tissue is just scar tissue throughout, the dead tissue.

— So you get inulin from cooked yams too?

Aajonus: No, not cooked yams. It’s converted to a bad sugar.

— So she shouldn’t have cooked yams.

Aajonus: No. Did you ever have an acne problem?

Sally: Not really. Just a little bit. I had some pimples when I was a kid. And I’m having them now. I think from purifying from this diet. I never get them.

Aajonus: I would say she shouldn’t eat red cooked starches.

— Well, she’s not going to eat anything cooked. Oh! Starches.

Aajonus: Yes. So, no cooked yams. I can tell by the scars on her chin that she had some allergy there, and particular glands were dumping it out right there. So she has an allergy to cooked red foods. It’s not an extreme allergy, but it’s...

— And how do you know it’s the red ones?

Aajonus: Because that corresponds to breaking out (Inaudible.) Pimples. And it may be just certain red foods. But why take a chance at this time?

— Allergies in general are lack of tolerance to ... lack of enzyme mutations for cooked red foods?

Aajonus: No. You can have different allergies for different cooked colors of food. But the acne usually appears from allergy to cooked red. That means even if you have cooked carrots because there is red in it.

— So that’s is about the only starch not to cook is the yam. Sally: So I would have that raw or in juice?

Aajonus: In juice.

— And jerusalem artichoke juice.

Aajonus: Yes. And in conjunction with some kind of a fat. You could have cheese when you have the juice or you could have cream in it. Once in a while to help clean out you could have some olive oil.

Let’s say two ounces of olive oil in sixteen ounces of juice. Drink it throughout the day. Maybe once every two weeks with the olive oil. Because it’s pretty astringent. You could use the sesame oil once a week. Two ounces with sixteen ounces of juice.

— Not flax?

Aajonus: Not right now. She has no condition nearing cancer at all. No cirrhosed tissue. The only thing that could slightly go cancerous is the right side of the thyroid. So, I would say you really need to stop taking those supplements. And you need to take the vanilla extract just about every day.

A quarter of a teaspoon to a half a teaspoon every day. That will stimulate the thyroid and get it going and then take the thyroid supplements. With your condition I would say about four, no five the first time. Take five tablets with a meat meal. The Nutripack.

— Because we had her on that at one point. Sally: We have some at home. — Five Nutripack raw thyroid.With meat.

Aajonus: Yes. With meat. Five times a week. Five days the first session of it. So it would be five tablets all at once for five days with a meat meal.

— Why with meat?

Aajonus: Because you are eating it with the tissue that relates to meat. Because thyroid is a meat. And the body will carry it. The body will already be dealing with the protein in the meat tissue and its chemicals, everything is geared for that. So putting it in at that time is the best.

Then let three weeks go by, then have four tablets for four days. And let three weeks go by again and just keep repeating the four for about a year. And hopefully you will see that the brown starts clearing up.

— No iodine sources?

Aajonus: No, she’s having the vanilla extract, which will stimulate it.

— It’s only that one brand.

Aajonus: That’s the only one I know of that’s organic.

— And anything else for the adrenals?

Aajonus: Well, the one adrenal gland is dead. So, it’s just a matter of building, and that’s the meat. She just has to eat... you are going to be the opposite of a vegetarian. That’s all there is to it. If you broke it down into three meat meals a day, you would do very well. Don’t eat it all at once. Eat it three times a day. Three to four ounces three times a day.

— If she craves more than that?

Aajonus: Do more. That’s a minimum.

Sally: I don’t think I would crave more than that.

Aajonus: Well, four ounces three times a day is twelve ounces. That’s less than a pound.

— And she can eat that white fat.

Aajonus: Yes. All of it to strengthen everything.

Sally: And what about dairy. Would I have much dairy?

Aajonus: That’s fine. You are clean enough to handle anything. Your digestive tract seems to be in order. Your liver is fine except that you are putting a little too much bile. But that’s just a process of trying to maintain your live cells. You don’t have enough good fats in there and good proteins so the bile is going around like an assistant, acting as a protector.

— But there aren’t situations are there where you would tell a person not to eat dairy.

Aajonus: Yes, there are a few. If they have an allergy to dairy. If someone has an allergy to dairy that they can’t overcome. And I will usually see that in an intestine that’s all out of shape.

Remember that one we saw in the book where the intestine went all over the place. Sometimes those people are allergic to dairy, even raw dairy. It’s very few people, but sometimes that happens. So I just tell them not to eat the fresh dairy.

They can still eat the cheese and the cream. But any milk, they are allergic to the lactate usually. There is hardly any in the cheese and there is hardly any in the cream.

— And the butter too, they can eat that.

Aajonus: Yes. Lots of butter.

— But there would be a lot of people that feel that they can’t handle dairy who could easily handle raw dairy.

Aajonus: Like you. Easily.

— So you are fine with dairy.

Thank you.

Sally: Yes, thanks very much. Really exciting prospect here. — Well, we did it.