Conscious Media Network Regina Interview

Date: June 2010

R = Regina (Host), A = Aajonus

R: Aajonus Vonderplanitz had to fight for his life from a very early age. His story is challenging. After experiencing many injuries and illnesses, the medical care he received took him deeper and deeper into a downward spiral until, in his early 20s, facing another bout with cancer, he decided to fast himself to death. The hand of fate, however, did not allow him to die. In the end, it was raw animal fats and proteins that saved his life, and he says it's fat that saves many of our lives, too. Aajonus, this is really interesting sitting here with you. I've been trying to get together with you for about a year now, and if I were to look you up on the internet knowing nothing about you, I would find some of the most controversial information out there. You bring up a lot of fear in people because of what we're going to get into in a bit, which is interesting as I'm sitting here in your home, and we're surrounded by lotus blossoms and bougainvillea and beautiful artwork. It seems to me such a delicate being and beautiful heart is who you are, and yet at the same time, this perception of this primal element frightens people. So I want to get into who you are first, because you've had what most people would consider to be, certainly early in life, an extremely painful journey to get where you are now. Can you talk a little bit, just give your backstory a bit, if you don't mind, from childhood, just for a few minutes?

A: Well, that's the only reason I'd probably be doing what I am and know what I know, if I hadn't experienced what I experienced. Basically I was born into a very violent household, so I was abused terribly, physically, not any sexual abuse, but violence, beatings and harassment, and putting the blame on me because I was autistic, and I was a scapegoat for a lot of things, a lot of issues. And I had a brother who was still in diapers when I was born, and he never forgave me for taking mother's attention away, as soon as I arrived from the hospital at birth. So he would push me on rusty nails, rakes, anything, because my mom was a nurse, so she'd rush me to the doctor or hospital, and I'd be getting a tetanus shot every few months. Back then, a tetanus shot was supposed to last a year, now they say it lasts five years. It all depends on how much money the pharmaceutical houses want to make, is how long something will last. It's got nothing to do with science. So at that time it was a year, but I was getting them every six months, three to six months, because of my brother pushing me on rusty things. My mother, in all of her career of nursing, had only seen one case of lockjaw, and whether it really results from tetanus or not, that's all debatable. It's another fallacy, probably, by the pharmaceutical industry. So I turned autistic at 18 months old on my third tetanus shot, and the mercury and the aluminum and formaldehyde went into that communication center of my brain, and I could no longer function on a communicative basis. I understood people's behavior, I was able to so-called read minds, but it wasn't a language. It was a sensory thing, I knew when people were lying, when they weren't lying, I could read a person backwards and forwards, like all autistic kids can. One of the main reasons they shut down is because 90% of what comes out of a parent's and adult's mouth is a lie, and they sense that, so they completely cut it off, because as an autistic child, it's impossible to deny truth. So it makes us want to recoil and distance ourselves from anything. But I wasn't allowed to appear autistic, or any time I'd go off to my stair, my parents would slap me, and say, don't look like that, you look like an idiot, like a crazy person. Back then, in the 40s and 50s, autism wasn't understood. So it was, you're crazy, we don't want you to be crazy, so it was a violent way of altering behavior rather than understanding biochemical the way they see it now. Of course, addressing it with pharmaceutical chemicals, there's no healing or no cure for it. But there is a reason for it chemically, and it can be adjusted dietarily.

R: But meanwhile, your whole body started breaking down at a very early age.

A: Well, because of all those early vaccines.

R: Yes, tetanus shots, exposure to all the other things as well.

A: Well, my mom was a nurse, so anything that went wrong, it was a chemical that she used. Even though she would always say, I don't like to give you aspirin because it's not that good for you, she would give us the stuff anyway, it was like a war in herself. So she was always giving us penicillin galore. I was coming down with infections that would last three to five months. So by the time I was twelve and a half, or twelve years old, in fact it was the week before my twelfth birthday, I came down with a case of peritonitis, which was misdiagnosed as appendicitis. So they went in, found my appendix okay, and took it out anyway. The reports said we're taking it out in case something causes problems.

R: Preventative.

A: Yeah. It's like, if the medical and pharmaceutical industry don't understand something, then sure, it doesn't have a purpose on this planet.

R: Right.

A: So rip it out.

R: Right.

A: But the appendix, I've known it for twenty some years by my experimentation with autopsies and examining tissue, and found that the appendix contained all of the bacteria, all of the chemicals that have ever entered the body, and what to do about them. So your body can react in twenty, forty minutes, instantly, on defending itself against that particular contamination. When you don't have an appendix, it takes twenty-two to forty-two hours before your body's reacting properly, because it has to reanalyze everything.

R: So it's kind of a first line of defense.

A: It's a library.

R: Yeah. Interesting.

A: Of what to do. It's a library of what the body should do in the circumstance that this chemical reenters the body.

R: Library, appendix, appendix.

A: This year, for the first time, a scientist, a M.D. scientist, a medical scientist, came out with that same conclusion. Just this year.

R: Wow. Interesting.

A: And I've been saying it for twenty-some years.

R: Well, yeah, and I mean, you've been saying a lot of things for a lot of years that people still at this point are yet to catch up with, but, you know, to kind of get to it, you literally had so many life-threatening diseases by the time you hit eighteen, you had, nineteen, you had blood cancer, bone cancer, you had it all, and you were really ready to check out.

A: Yeah. Well, at fifteen and a half, I got my third polio vaccine, and it wasn't the salk, it was the injection. And it gave me angina pectoris, which were heart attacks, and it made me diabetic, juvenile diabetic. So I was taking insulin. Juvenile diabetes is irreversible, according to the medical profession. So psoriasis, angina pectoris, all those things that I developed. By the time I was nineteen, I got an ulcer from being an alcoholic and a drug user because I was so fatigued as a child, I used to, by the time I was eight years old, I started smoking with a nicotine high to give me energy. And I'd go at night into the kitchen and steal whatever coffee was left and pour it into a jar and put it under my bed, and I'd have to drink it in the morning to be able to get out of bed. And I was always in excruciating pain, so I couldn't play sports. I could barely move without severe pain. So by the time I hit nineteen years old, I was drinking alcohol to help me relax at night and taking benzadrines and smoking two packs of non-filtered cigarettes daily, you know, to give me the pump and the high. So by the time I was nineteen, into my nineteenth year, I started vomiting blood because of an ulcer. The treatment for that gave me blood cancer, blood and bone cancer. Well, first they gave me a stomach ulcer because they went in and cut the vagus nerves of the stomach, put me in a state of an octogenarian who no longer secretes hydrochloric acid and will never digest proteins properly again. And then the treatment for that became cancerous. The treatment for that was radiation therapy. So they gave me blood and bone cancer, cauterized my spine that if I tried to move just a few inches, I was in excruciating pain in my back. And then the treatment for that was chemotherapy because they gave me the blood and bone cancer. And of course, I was an invalid. I was a worm on the floor because I couldn't move without excruciating pain. I was defecating and urinating all over myself on the floor.

C: By nineteen, eighteen, nineteen?

A: Nineteen, well, twenty years old by this time.

C: Twenty years old by this time.

A: And I was supposed to die at twenty-one.

C: All right, well, here we are, a number of years later, a few decades later, and you're alive and well. And now let's start talking about the journey of finding your own way. Obviously, the medical model wasn't working well for you, it's fair to say. And you were a very sensitive being and you reacted to all of these things, and yet somehow you mustered some, not just curiosity, but intuitive strength in yourself to begin another type of journey. Let's talk about the healing journey, and we get into some pretty controversial stuff here.

A: Well, the healing journey began with me dying. I was definitely going to die in a small house in Beverly Hills, two-bedroom house. It was all wood flooring. And the reason I was in there, because even though I was autistic still, I would parrot language, but I had, like a lot of idiots, savants, a talent for math. So I could write a computer program in a few hours, then it would take them six months to a year to write. So the technical school that trained me, or used me, I should say, because they didn't have to train me, I was like Dustin Hoffman in The Rain Man. I could look at a problem and not have to write out the formula to get it. I had the answer. So it was very easy for me. So I was a junior executive for Car Blanche Corporation, Time DC, a trucking company, and sometimes IBM, I was farmed out. So I always had one of the professors with me to write out the curriculum, the flow chart, besides the design. He would write out the lettering and stuff to my programs. And you know, I was making a lot of money as an idiot. So I was making a lot of money, so I had a little small house in Beverly Hills, two-bedroom, and I was living on there with no furniture in the living room, crawling around different areas of the floor. It was a long room, about 35 feet long. So I would defecate and urinate, because I couldn't, I was in so much pain, I couldn't get on a pan or a pot or urinate into a bottle or anything like that, but on a rare occasion. So I was defecating, urinating all over myself, and then would pull myself, because I could only move my arms without excruciating pain, and crawl to some other area of the floor and just kept going around. And I refused to go to a hospice, because I was autistic, and people were dying there, and I didn't want to be around that. So two volunteers offered to come in and take care of me, two, three days a week. So they would come, they would shop for me, and what they would get for me, is what I requested, was donuts and RC Cola, and they would pour it into a blender and blend it, because after the radiation therapy, all the bone around my teeth dissolved. So my teeth just dangled in my mouth, so biting on my own teeth, I would lose sometimes a half a cup of blood in a couple of hours. So I was getting two transfusions a week just for that.

R: And you're getting some really high quality smoothies there.

A: Yeah, RC Cola donuts, yes, or I would take, or they would take Rice Krispies, full of sugar already, and add four tablespoons of sugar to that, and mix with, of course, processed milk.

R: Okay, so this wasn't working for you either?

A: This volunteer, a young 18-year-old African-American boy, Steve Flanagan, he offered me raw carrot juice and raw milk. He was this young boy, I was young too, I was only 21, and he was 18, and he was making a lot of money, he was a singer in the business. And he was just a compassionate individual. Finally I started drinking the carrot juice and the raw, I mean the raw milk, and within ten days of drinking that, my autism shut off, and I was able to understand language just like that. Of course, I didn't get well quickly, it took two and a half years to regenerate the bone around my teeth before I could eat. I was not allowed to eat anything cooked because of the vagotomy, I was told that if I ate anything raw, whether it be banana or apple, I had to steam everything, or I would die. So I was told, because I had said I was in danger of bacterial parasitical invasion, microbe invasion, because I had no hydrochloric acid to dissolve and kill things that were bacterial, and that's the whole medical myth and nonsense.

R: Now you're at this, with the raw milk and the raw carrot juice, you're getting live enzymes and you're getting better.

A: Yes. Well there are no such thing as a live enzyme. Enzymes are not alive, they're protein structures. Bacteria is alive. And your bodies, our bodies are 99% bacterial. Yes. So every time you take an antibiotic, you're destroying, let's say you take a five day cycle, you're destroying 1% of the body's bacteria, which reduces your activity, your functionality by 1%, because people take it for 10 days, weeks, years at a time. The doctor that put my mother's implant in her ear for her hearing aid, put her on antibiotics for almost a year, and all of a sudden, guess what, she couldn't digest, she couldn't function. She almost died. And I had to feed her papaya to get her to start digesting again. I went to say goodbye, because I got a call she was going to die. Just like my son, he said he was going to die. And I brought him back with just food.

R: So let's talk about getting into the more aggressive areas of healing yourself with food, because this set you on a journey. Once you started seeing the healing within, and because you had this native intelligence and ability to intuit, you really took on the study of health and nutrition.

A: Yes, but you have to remember though, because I didn't get my, have my communication faculty. I read my first book at 22 years old.

R: Yes.

A: You know, it was Siddhartha, and it was like, what, 82 pages, something like that.

R: Right, it's a little book.

A: I took me a full week, 16 hours a day to read it, because I had no vocabulary. I had to look up the word definitions of the words in the definition of the definitions of definitions.

R: Yeah.

A: So it took me a whole week to see it through 82 pages.

R: So you weren't going through volumes of text just yet, but you were discovering, your own self-discovery seems to have been the most important part of this.

A: What I'm saying is, when I learned communication, then all of a sudden started mislearning everything else. So I learned bad things. I learned vegetarianism. I learned radical approaches that were not healthful. And then when I got into those, you know, I started getting better and better. I started eating, started studying nutrition and got a great nutritionist at the time who was advocating 70-75% raw, raw milk, raw eggs, not raw meat, but those things. So I was getting better and better. So by the time I was 27, I was a raw food vegetarian, fruitarian.

R: You were a vegan for a while, weren't you?

A: Six and a half years altogether. So that degenerated me. I went to a good place and then when I went totally against any kind of lacto-ovo, any of that in my diet, then I started degressing and that was the last two and a half years of that journey. I got on a bicycle, I was going to go out and live on the land and live with animals and Indian tribes and find out what's true health because I learned, after being in those books until I was 27, I realized that there was nothing I was going to learn of truth from the medical profession because they were run by the pharmaceutical industry.

R: Yes, and you're well versed in this, but you were also, in terms of your own experience, you would find that your health profile would rise, you would gain strength, your mind would become clearer, and then when you'd go on another radical diet, such as when you did become a vegan, for example, it started declining again.

A: My mind didn't because I was so strong, like you, I stayed that way even though there were bad consequences to it.

R: But what were some of the consequences, and I ask this because a lot of people watching have probably made that decision to switch over, and we'll get into the whole notion of different blood types, ethnicities, and is there a prescription that one size fits all, or do we all need something different? But I went on a 20-year lacto-ovo vegetarian journey, and I think I made it that long because of the lacto-ovo part, because I became ill and had to ultimately leave it behind. You went strict vegan for a while, what were some of the consequences you were seeing for your body?

A: Because I had had anemia, the blood cancer, and the bone cancer, I didn't have to be on it but two and a half years before I went down to 98 pounds, my bones started disintegrating, I got leukemia again, and I was deteriorating, so I decided, and I was living on a bicycle outdoors, which is very stressful, the temperature changes from day to night can be 80 degrees. Wind storms, sun storms, rain storms, blizzards, I was all through it with living on a bicycle and sleeping bag outdoors, so it was very stressful, and they talk about the stress of a job, or indoors, or with emotional stress, they don't know what stress is until you've lived outdoors, that's stress. People used to fare that all the time without central heat and air conditioning, that was a normal part of life a hundred years ago, but now everybody's, you've got it easy as far as I'm concerned, but living in that as a fruitarian, strict fruitarian, no lacto, no ovo, no meats at all, I disintegrated heavily, so I chose to die.

R: Because now the cancer's back, and it's like, what am I, I've tried everything.

A: I was aching in every joint, the temperature dropped below 50 degrees, I mean at 50 degrees I started having severe joint pain. By the time at 48 I was crippled and excruciating pain. I couldn't move.

R: So you were going to die, so you chose your way.

A: I chose to fast to death.

R: To fast to death.

A: I picked an old Indian burial ground in California, I bicycle all the way from, well I couldn't bicycle much anymore, but I was in Alaska at the time living with the Eskimos. And all the Indian tribes, I'd lived with four Indian tribes, and all of them suggested I eat raw meat. And I said, no, they're just trying to kill the white boy, revenge, you know, cause, again, I'd been brainwashed into believing even though raw foods were good, with the vagotomy, which is the severing of the vagus nerve and no hydrochloric acid in the stomach, I would die, I would get a parasite and die.

R: So this was heavily entrenched in your mind, that if you ate raw meat, you were going to die.

A: Correct.

R: Of poisoning.

A: Exactly.

R: But you, tell us this next part of the story.

A: Well, I was in this old Indian burial ground outside, you know, at the foothills of a mountain range, St. Martinus Mountain Range, in Thermal, California. And I was just drinking water to keep the headaches away, and I was going to fast myself to death. I knew it would take probably 40, 60 days to do. So right away, I happened to pick a vein of the mountain where it led up into a canyon where a bunch of coyotes lived. Their den was up there. So they'd come down every night and wake me up, almost like clockwork at midnight, and do their howling and play games with me. By about the tenth or twelfth day, you know, my mind's a little fuzzy from all the fasting from that period, but I was able to sense them going around where my campsite was down the wash. So the day that I sensed all 11 of them, the next night they killed a jackrabbit and offered it to me, ripped it up and put it at my feet. And you know, I was also a philosophical vegetarian because I loved animals. I didn't want to kill animals, so I was afraid of raw meat. So what went through my head at that moment, though, you know, the coyotes were offering it to me, and I'm looking at the Easter bunny. They ripped it open for me, it was all warm and squishy and everything at my feet. So this dialogue went through my head... When I was probably about ten years old my brothers and cousins were going rabbit hunting, and my uncle was telling them that if they shot a wild rabbit, they needed to cook it until it was brown inside, could be no pink meat at all, because there's a microbe in wild rabbits that will take over your intestinal tract within 48 hours, and you'll die a miserable, painful death within 48 hours. So well, the pain would come within 24 hours, dead in 48. So I thought, oh, coyotes are trying to help me die quickly. So I picked up the rabbit and I started eating, and of course it came back up, and I had to psych myself in, like at the dinner table when I was forced to eat vegetables that would make me projectile vomit. You know, I forced myself into that mental attitude and ate the rabbit, and by the time I got through probably the 12th or 15th bite, it tasted incredibly good to me. So I devoured almost three pounds, three and a half pounds. Coyotes shared the rest, they went away, I went back to my campsite to die, and I knew I was dying because I felt good.

R: Right. Like you were having that lucid moment before death.

A: Right. You know, I had had three near-death experiences, twice on an operating table, where they had to revive me on a recreational drug experience, and I had to be revived. So I had left the body at those times, and when you leave the body like that, there's no pain. You leave the pain with the body. So I was having that kind of experience, so I was walking in the body back to my campsite. So I knew I was dying, and I woke the next morning and I'm still alive in my sleeping bag, I didn't go through any white tunnel or meet Buddha or Jesus or anybody. I was just still here in my body. And I had pretty good energy for the next three days, four days, and I didn't die, and nothing bad happened. So I said, Indians weren't lying to me at all, they were telling me raw meat. So I started, you know, hunting, trapping chipmunks and birds and scorpions and tarantulas. I ate anything I'd get a hold of, I'd just break off the poison gland.

R: Now this is the part that scares people, because it's so primitive.

A: Well, if you go to Asia, you can find these things, you can buy bats, you can buy tarantulas.

R: I've been there, someone offered me a little ant tart, yes, I know that's very true. But it's this Western perception, I mean, let's just stop here for one little moment before we go on, and I want to get into the politics and the rest of it, in that if we go to the grocery store and we buy a steak and put it in teriyaki sauce, throw it on a grill, char the outside, leave it medium rare or rare on the inside, that's civilized, that's okay. But for you to trap these animals and to eat them, this is primitive. This is raw. This is frightening. Even though rare meat is just about raw, it's barely even warmed. This psychological difference that frightens people so and creates a lot of controversy around you is, what is it that's happening there as an intuitive being in our psyche that we cannot handle?

A: Well, it's our conditioning, we're taught to be afraid of everything, and it's the most absurd thing in the world. Look, I mean, we've had raw dishes throughout history, steak tartare, chopped raw beef, and raw egg mixed together. And the Germans eat more than anybody else of steak tartare, even the French. And we have carpaccio, which is thinly sliced, completely raw meat.

R: But when it's called carpaccio and it's served on a tray in a restaurant, it's one thing. But you had to confront it directly, personally.

A: Well, the very first raw food that I ate after eating the rabbit was a rattlesnake. And that was difficult, because there were a lot of bones in it, and it does not taste like chicken. Raw fish, I mean, it tastes like raw fish. Snake tastes like raw fish.

R: So this was, you were almost, in a sense, by circumstance, you needed to eat whatever you found and was available to you because you were on the land. And so over what period of time did you start really regaining some strength?

A: Well, after a week of trapping little things and eating them, there's just not much food. And I was 96 pounds. So I got on my bicycle, went to all the near local farms. And I was in a farming country, lots of farmland, mostly dates and citrus fruit. But there were lots of people with farms, pigs, goats, cows milking. So I made deals with different farmers to milk their cows or goats, shovel manure, any work on the farms in exchange for all the food I wanted. So I was drinking a gallon of raw milk a day, eating anywhere from a stick to two sticks of butter a day, which is a quarter to a half a pound of butter a day. And chicken and eggs and everything I could eat. And within two and a half months, I gained 50 pounds. And I looked like a scaled Arnold Schwarzenegger, the first time in my life that I had muscles before I was fat as a child, then I got very skinny once I became a diabetic.

R: And this was a combination of eating all the raw fats, the raw proteins, but also you were doing some labor at the time.

A: Yes.

R: So you were exercising your body.

A: Correct, which wasn't normal except for bicycling.

R: So now you'd gone to die, and now you're looking like, as you say, a scaled Arnold Schwarzenegger over a relatively short period of time.

A: Yes.

R: What did you start focusing on after that? Because I know it wasn't too long after that, you started giving nutritional advice.

A: Right. A year later.

R: Yeah.

A: Yeah, I went back to Los Angeles, spread the word that raw meat was the answer. Everybody said, you're going to get a brain fluke, and you're going to be an idiot. And I said, I've been there and done that.

R: Yeah.

A: I've been there and done that many times, you know, for most of my life, 22 years. But this was the only thing that made me truly feel stable and well in my body. So I wasn't going to stop. But after three years of hearing, oh, you're going to get a brain fluke, I started fearing it. I said, oh, this next time, is that going to be the time that, you know, I have a problem? Is that raw meat going to take over? And after 13 years of eating raw meat and 10 years of fear, I said, there's something terribly wrong here. I've got a vagotomy. I'm supposed to be deathly ill from eating anything raw, and here I'm eating raw meat for 13 years, and I've never gotten diarrhea or vomit from it, ever. You know, this doesn't make sense. So I went to the main medical universities looking for the experiments that prove the raw meat gives parasites, and there wasn't one.

R: Yeah, we hear salmonella, bacterial poisoning, where everyone's afraid of raw eggs, raw milk, oh, you're going to get sick and die. The stats are something quite different. I mean, most of the salmonella poisoning that takes place is from cooked foods, like what, 95, 96%?

A: Absolutely. 99.999%.

R: It's all from cooked food. Okay, let's get into that. Because I think we probably, we need to talk about a lot of things here. Let's get over that myth number one, that if you eat it raw, you're going to become ill from bacterial contamination, versus what actually happens when you cook the proteins.

A: Well, I've explained it in my, you know, diatribe on getting well and all of that, how 13 years without any illness or sickness from that. You know, I had detoxifications, of course, with the chemo and radiation and everything else. I had prior to that, and how do I know that? I had my feces, urine, tissue analyzed, and they had the chemotherapy in it, high amounts of iodine in the radiation that was all given to me during radiation therapies. So I had justification. I had laboratory tests to prove it. Never got sick from any of the bacteria, but you have to understand that the medical profession wanted to make big money. So was the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, all of those, and even Carnegie, you know. They had to adopt a program just like the military. If you've got an enemy, you can put, instill fear in everyone, and you hook them on paying for attacking, to go and fight people, human beings, and killing them, believing that they're against your religion or against your political system, whatever it is, even though it may work for those particular people, and they do fine with it. This was a way of starting a war within your body, to do what? To make you sick. So what is always attacked? The healthiest things, raw milk. Can't get healthier than raw milk, you know, so.

R: I mean, the Hunza tribe, don't they drink raw milk, the Hunza tribe, I mean, the Hunza peoples?

A: Practically, that was probably 89% of their diet.

R: They're known for their longevity and their hardiness under, in pretty extreme weather.

A: Yes, in the mountains.

R: In the mountains. So, I mean, that's just one example of a culture that has historically lived on raw dairy.

A: Well, you've got the Maasai tribe, the Samburu, the Fulani, the Eskimo.

R: Yes.

A: 100% disease-free, as long as they stayed on their raw meats and raw milk.

R: Right. So what happens, now, what happens chemically, and what happens in our body's interaction with protein? Let's take dairy. When you pasteurize it and homogenize it, what happens to it?

A: Well, I can tell you theoretically what happens to it. At 105 degrees, the enzymes become cauterized. So they no longer will help you form tissue, and doesn't even help you digest it. By 112 degrees, you start destabilizing the vitamins. 122, you've completely cauterized and neutralized and destroyed all of the enzymes. By 123 to 127 degrees, you've completely incapacitated the vitamins. By 142 degrees, you've completely altered them into a state where the body can't even reconstruct them, and then you start breaking down proteins, like calcium. If you look at the difference between the utilized calcium in raw milk to pasteurized milk, and that's only 141 degrees for 15 to 30 seconds. Only 50% of that calcium can be utilized. The other 50% goes out in the feces.

R: Now, when you have traditional pasteurization, what does the temperature rise to?

A: Now they're doing it to ultra pasteurization, which is 270 degrees.

R: So essentially, this has no nutritional value. It's destroyed. Now, when you have people, many, many people in the culture with lactose intolerance, what happens if they were to drink raw milk versus pasteurized, homogenized milk?

A: Well, when you drink pasteurized milk, you've got also a cauterized lactate, milk sugars, can't digest. So they get into the blood and start cutting, becomes like a glass and starts cutting cells, and people have allergies to it if they don't form enough mucus, or mucus that has good fibers.

R: Right. So that's what lactose intolerance is. Oftentimes, you're saying that it's because the milk has been altered, but if they were to introduce, say, raw dairy into the diet, they may not have that experience.

A: 99% of people wouldn't suffer lactose intolerance. Then you have 1% that does, but it's from the old lactose that's stored in their body from being cooked and processed. So when I give people like two to four ounces of raw milk a day over a three-month period, that 1% is no longer lactose intolerant.

R: What about the notion that certain cultures, certain races who are raised, say, Asians, for example, are known to be particularly lactose intolerant? Can it be argued that because, perhaps, cows aren't as native to their land, that they're using more rice and soy and other kinds of milks, that genetically, there are beings that are simply not adapted to eating certain things? In other words, getting back to that eat right, clean, and tight.

A: No. It was another lie. They didn't want ... Asia includes India.

R: Yes. Cows. India adores cows. Oh, yeah.

A: Lots of milk. You're not allowed to kill a cow and eat meat, but you eat their dairy.

R: Yes.

A: They didn't want that, because dairy is one of the most important defenses against pollution, because the concentration of minerals, because it can neutralize vaccine contamination, all that. So they want to get rid of the raw milk. They don't want milk in any form, whether it's pasteurized or otherwise, in other parts of Asia. So they lied about it. I've got many patients in Singapore, in Thailand, Philippines, a few in Vietnam, that do excellently. In fact, the main Chinese newspaper in Singapore did a whole front-page spread on the people who were doing my diet, because here they were these skinny, weak Chinese people that were now robust like Americans.

R: Oh, really? And they did a feature on this. Interesting.

A: Yeah. And they did a whole full-page article. I wasn't able to read it. It was in Chinese, so it was translated for me.

R: Hopefully, they said some nice things.

A: But I didn't have any input into it, and they only gave it favorably, because every Chinese person who was on it in Singapore did well.

R: Interesting. Okay. And this whole thing about fats and detoxifying, do you know who Udo Erasmus is?

A: Yes.

R: Okay. He was a friend of mine, and he taught me about this maybe 10, 15 years ago. And his own journey was he poisoned himself as a hippie gardener, putting a bunch of pesticides on bouchard garden roses, walking through it barefoot. And that's where he learned about, he had read somewhere about fats will help pull the toxins out of the body, right?

A: Well, what happens is, whenever, if you take it from the basic start of our understanding, it was, you analyze tissue. And we found that in the brain, which is 60 to 70, 80% fat, yeah, you're a fathead, hey, absolutely, I am. Thank you. It's a compliment. And, you know, in the bone marrow and in fat deposits in people who were fat, you had these concentrations of toxins, pesticides, whatever it was. So we learned from that that, hey, putting fat into the body will absorb and detox toxins out of the body. That's why somebody comes to me with, you know, he has had chemotherapy or chelation therapy, and chelation therapy is a poisoning. All of those are poisonings, fat will help mitigate the damage done and help remove it eventually and lower continual damage.

R: Okay, and that's an important thing for us to know. So this is part of the eating the whole fats and the raw fats in the diet, whether it be milk, cream, butter, raw cheeses, and so forth. This is partly what it is.

A: And raw animal fats.

R: And raw animal fats as well. And, and, okay.

A: And Udo got into a lot of oils, pressed oils.

R: Fresh pressed oils.

A: Yes. They are very detoxifying. 90% detoxifying. They don't stabilize and strengthen the body while they detoxify. However, animal fats do. Butter is probably the most important for the overall human or any animal. And cream is necessary, but it's more difficult to digest. And it helps the brain and the nervous system where the butter can't as much. But butter takes care of everything else. So in my diet, I stress butter as the most important fat and that that should be consumed primarily.

R: And this is not just you, the Weston Price Foundation, Sally Fallon's work. There are a lot of other, Pottenger's work. This has been validated in the past as well. There's, there are many, many validations for this, many studies for this as well.

A: But all of them are plagued with the same belief in the fear of bacteria.

R: Yes.

A: So Sally Fallon, all of those people say freeze your raw meats if you're going to eat them. Freeze your butter, your, you know, stuff like that. She doesn't say about the milk, thank God. And in my laboratory tests of animals, I found when I fed them frozen meat and the same meat, one part of one group, frozen and the same meat, raw, unfrozen, other group. Every one of the animals in the frozen group got a skin disorder all the way to the point of scabies.

R: Oh, interesting.

A: It's terrible. Then I knew that butter, raw butter would reverse those conditions because of my experiments with humans and feeding people butter and how quickly it alleviated a lot of the skin problems, up to 80%, even 100% in some circumstances. But some people still had to deal with acne and stuff like that, rashes. But 80% of them reduced. So when I fed half of that sick group raw butter and the other frozen raw butter, which I can't call raw anymore, the ones who had the frozen butter took five times longer to heal than those that had it unfrozen. Now Sally, even though she hasn't done experiments, denies that, you know. And Jay Crewe, the MD Jay Crewe or the scientist Jay Crewe that studied raw milk and used raw milk diets, he said the same thing about when you freeze the cream, it doesn't work as well. I don't know why people are denying this fact.

R: Right.

A: It is a fact.

R: Okay. Now I want to work something else in at this point.

A: I want to put something else in there about fats. People are afraid of being overweight.

R: I was just going to ask you that.

A: 110 years ago, you couldn't get a skinny woman, you couldn't get a man to marry a skinny woman. Because why? There was no central heat. There was no central air conditioning. If you lived in an environment where it was snowing and cold, if the woman were skinny and she were pregnant, she'd most likely die and the baby with her. Then who was left to raise children? If there were any that were conceived in that family prior to that. So skinny women were shunned upon. They mostly became professional women or women who were prostitutes or something like that who didn't have to deal with family life. But your family woman was a robust, fat woman.

R: And that is still true in many cultures around the world today. And yet in the West, we certainly have been brainwashed into being phobic about ending up in that class of having extra pounds on the body.

A: And when you've been on this diet as long as I've been, I've been on this diet now, eating raw food since 1972. So I'm nearing 40 years. However, I didn't start eating raw meat on a daily basis until 82. So I've been doing this for 32 years, eating the raw meat.

R: And drinking lots of raw milk and eating lots of raw butter, and you have no excess weight on you.

A: I do. I have 18% body fat. But you don't see it. Well, you have to understand, when you have a raw fat molecule, and it's integrated into our system for the fat for our bodies, it's a very tiny molecule. When you cook a fat, it swells anywhere from two to a hundred or 50 times its normal size.

R: I would never guess you have 18% body fat. You look totally, just perfect.

A: I look like an athlete with, let's say, eight to 10% body fat.

R: Yeah, you do.

A: Yeah.

R: And that's interesting. And you eat a lot of fat. Okay, that's a very interesting distinction, because I was going to ask you that next.

A: But when I was ill, I kept my fat weighted anywhere from 27 to 30%, a woman's weight.

R: Yes. And that should be more of a normal woman's weight.

A: That should be a normal weight for anybody who's been on a cooked food diet for life. They should all be at least 20, 25 pounds overweight for 20, 30 years, depending upon their health condition.

R: So have you seen people that take on this relatively high fat, but raw fats diet actually lose weight?

A: Oh, yes. Yeah. If they're extremely overweight, yes, definitely. So let's say I had a person who was 300 pounds for most of his life. He went down to 25, 20 pounds overweight.

R: Right.

A: But he was also a drug addict and alcoholic for 25 years. And when I did tests for his intestines and his glands and his heart and everything, they tested very high, like he was in his late 20s, early 30s, and he was in his mid 50s. And he looked incredibly healthy. Why? Because he had all this fat, even though it wasn't good fat. Poisons still go into fat, no matter if they're good or bad. So when he threw off that fat, he threw off most of those toxins that never got to invade the cells, his glands, and his organs.

R: Interesting.

A: Yeah. So I look at people who are fat and I say, you are blessed, and that's the first time they hear it. And I say, you have been blessed because you've been fat all of your life. You're protected. You have better health. Now do it differently. Put different fat on so you can start reducing the number of those big, huge fat molecules of fat that make you huge.

R: Interesting. Yeah. And that's probably the first time anybody listening has ever, ever heard that.

A: Probably ever heard that, yeah.

R: Now, aside from that, you also, it's not as though you completely shun the vegetable kingdom. I mean, from what I've read, and tell me, I don't know if this is still true, you also, you do fresh juices, fresh vegetable juices, but you accompany it with fat. Now, I'm bringing this up because I have a juicing machine and I love the notion of getting a lot of fresh, vital green in my body, but then I start getting lightheaded and I notice I have to eat something fat with it or I just don't function well. I feel a little sick to my stomach. What's going on there?

A: Well, you've got two things. You're inundating yourself with enzymes for digestion. A lot of people don't mix their juices right, so they get a lot of carbohydrate, like carrots and beets and things like that, are very concentrated in carbohydrates, so they have a sugar high and sugar low and are in an erratic nervous system because the vegetable juices will go right in and get into the body quickly. So I suggest adding a little bit of cream or raw egg.

R: Or coconut even, like raw coconut.

A: Coconut cream, yes, or eat some coconut, but coconut cream is preferable. Some fat to slow it down in the processing and absorption into the body. Well, vegetable juice I found is very important because a lot of people lack digestive enzymes and enzymes to get the body motivated. Instead of going to coffee or soda or caffeine or nicotine, anything like that, to give them a boost in the morning. It's a false boost. It's like taking cocaine or any other drug. It's a false boost. It isn't a healthy energy boost. It's an irritation boost that causes adrenaline to hit the blood. So you're stimulated by adrenaline rather than good healthy metabolism.

R: And which the vegetable juices will do, right?

A: No, they will provide the nutrients to help digest the foods.

R: To help digest the foods, okay, so it's the enzyme action.

A: Yes, it's the enzymatic activity. It's also full of vitamins. It's your vitamins.

R: And minerals.

A: Mineral supplement. So it's, so I say everybody should have that little cheese in the morning to absorb toxins to detox during the night. Ten minutes after that, a vegetable juice with a little fat or egg in it. And to drink that. And that will invigorate them and get them moving. And then a meat meal next. You know, so the body isn't making its, its fuel from carbohydrate which causes a stickiness that makes thoughts slow, lags, makes the blood flow slowly, sticky, neurological fluid, the lymphatic fluid. So when you're having pyruvate, you don't have all that glycogen byproduct like advanced glycation end product that causes a weakness or a coming down in energy. So when you have meat, raw meat, the body makes pyruvate. And it doesn't have all those carbohydrate byproducts.

R: So kind of summarizing this area, it seems to me what happened is you're, not only your body was able to heal itself just to an extraordinary level, but also you found your own disposition, your mental functioning more calm, more clear. Is that?

A: Yes. And I've experimented with eating different foods at different times of the day with myself and literally thousands of people over the past, you know, 42 years, 40 years. So even when I was traveling on a bicycle, because I was a vegetarian, vegetarians, you know, have to be evangelist, evangelist, evangelistic. So I was always telling people, you know, that they had to be vegetarians, but eat raw, you know, food and be healthier. So I was helping some people, you know, they wouldn't go into the vegetarianism like I did it, but they'd start eating more raw foods and they would get healthier.

R: And that's a good thing.

A: Yeah, absolutely.

R: But let's talk about the politics. I mean, I've heard radio interviews with you and you're very well versed in a lot of these. One thing that's comes up regularly is first of all, get rid of the raw, get rid of the raw foods, get rid of the raw milk. And we're in the state of California where you can still buy raw milk, but it comes up. It seems almost every year it's threatened to bring it up in the state legislature to get rid of it. But it's not just raw milk, everything. I know we don't have time to go into the Codex Alimentarius or any of that, and you have your own view on supplementation, but what in the big picture do you see happening on a governmental agency level?

A: Well, the government is all run by corporations. Of course, your chemical industries are the biggest, the last 12 FDA heads were all either a CEO on a pharmaceutical company or a chemical company, Dow, Monsanto, one of those, or they went to that position after they got out of office.

R: So they're pushing for a whole different agenda here.

A: Oh, yes. To me, what is happening is they want to make a lot of money. They want to keep control of people. So how do you keep control of people? You keep them procreating, keep them in credit, and you keep them unhealthy. They'll always be in fear of something because they're not going to be well. They're not going to be stable mentally or emotionally. So if they can't get foods that help them calm and relax and be at peace, they're going to be running to a doctor, especially with commercials that are all over, lying, deceitful, completely fraudulent commercials that the government completely ordains. These conditioned people that if they get a sniffle, it could be cancer, it could be a major problem that's going to cause you a heart attack or a serious disease, so run to your doctor. And the doctor has no therapies, not one, even investigative testing methods that aren't harmful. All of them are. And one time I talked with a doctor about that, and he said, oh, well, we didn't take an oath when we took the Hippocratic Oath. There was no Bible on, so we really didn't swear at anything. That was the attitude. Think about what you're dealing with with doctors. And doctors all are run by the pharmaceutical industry. Pharmaceutical industry writes all the medical procedures. There's no independence there.

R: Yes, that's true. That continuing education, in fact, the curriculum is written in large part by pharmaceutical companies.

A: And if you have raw milk, you can't make people sick easily.

R: So who has generally been behind the introduction of this legislation that comes up year after year after year?

A: Well, you've always got your little puppets, you know, in your health departments. In California, we had a professor at USC, John Leadom, and I don't mind telling his name because he was one of the most, he's one of the biggest unintelligent, intelligent people I know. So I can't say he's intelligent, he has a good, flexible mind, but he has no common sense and nor does he can he sift through anything. He headed it for a long time and he became the president of the American Medical, I mean the Los Angeles County Medical Milk Commission, and he vowed to outlaw raw milk. Well, I got together with a lot of information and I wrote a report that Dr. Douglas allowed me to use 80% of his information and 20% of my research. And I wrote a report that he allowed me to author, and that was used to get the law changed in California to the point where, guess what, in Los Angeles County, where we didn't need the Medical Milk Commission anymore. So he lost his job because we got rid of the commission.

R: Good, congratulations.

A: Thank you.

R: And now you're, and by the way, raw milk is delicious.

A: It's incredible.

R: I mean, it tastes, I've had it in India, you know, where the cows are eating garbage off the street and there's your little cafe you're going to have your breakfast at in the morning and you know where that milk came from just earlier that morning and it was delicious. But here, it feels a little safer here, just, you know, that's our perception. But you have, you're now involved in helping work with dairy farmers and to distribute in this area, there's distribution to, for the people that follow your diet, so they can find raw products, but this isn't in most states. Most states you can't find raw dairy still.

A: I know, but anybody can put it together. There are farmers in every state, they just have to be educated. There are a lot of people who've taken my book, We Want to Live, and the recipe for living without disease, and given them to farmers. And once a farmer's read that, he said, oh my God, milk will do this, my butter will do that, and then all of a sudden they take a stand against the government, they realize the government is harming the people. And intentionally getting rid of the good foods.

R: So you, people, we'll have all the information to contact you on your page, your organization, and to start researching for themselves, reading the books. And I just want to say, I really appreciate the courage it's taken you just to get this far in life, and go through this journey, even starting with eating that little jack rabbit as an avowed vegetarian.

A: What's a little rabbit? Well, a big rabbit. That was a seven and a half pound rabbit.

R: Seven and a half pound rabbit as an avowed, you know, philosophical vegetarian, that could not have been easy, but when you're starving to death and dying, and some animals have offered you something, and you're intuitive, I guess it can take people in places they never dreamed they would go. And it's really been a pleasure talking with you.

A: Well, thank you very much.

R: Is there any final thought at all here?

A: Yeah, just realize that 99% of what the medical profession, pharmaceutical houses say is a lie. Do just the opposite. Exactly the opposite. And you will be right.

R: On that, thank you very much.

A: You're welcome.

R: You can purchase a copy of Aajonus' books, We Want to Live, The Primal Diet, and The Recipe for Living Without Disease at Amazon and other major booksellers. Until next time, thanks for watching CMN.